Pro Tools HD Advice

[TonyS.]

Hi guys,
after a lot of back and forth, I decided to join the Pro Tools HD side.

My current setup is:
- Pro Tools 10 native
- Saffire 56
- very powerfull Win7 Intel i7 PC

I want to be able to track a max. of 16 tracks simultaneously with a lot of plugins while monitoring. And being able to do overdubs in the mix process, without bypassing everything.

No I am looking for the best solution. I want to go with the 96IO + external preamps, but have no idea which HD system to chose.

I am a bit confused by the different options like HD2 / HD3 / accel / HD native. I want to buy used and the newer HDx systems are out of my price range.

 

[Fandus]

I use rme raydat with adi-8 conversion. With rme interfaces you get total mix, which allows for zero latency input monitoring external to Protools. With that I can have huge sessions running on a 1024 buffer with heaps of plugins, and just monitor the input of the rme raydat.

Something to look into in my opinion. Gives you the same feature for a fraction of the cost.

 

[TonyS.]

I can do the same with the saffire, but the difference is, you are monitoring the rough signal without processing.

 

[greyskull]

Not a great time to Buy an HD TDM system... Well... It will be cheap, but only because it'll be a doorstop as soon as PT 11 comes out.

If you're going for the HDX system then that's great, should be no issues.

Also be aware that if you DO want to monitor the signal of a track whilst recording, you need to have the TDM version of the Plug-in to do so, or the AAX DSP version whereas in PT native, that's not an issue. This can be a real pain, especially as so many amp sims are Rtas only. There is a way round this..
If you send the the output of the track or create a send from the track to an Aux Input, you can put an RTAS plug-in on the Aux and monitor the recorded track with processing.

The 96 I/O sounds pretty average as well TBH, it's a converter I would try and avoid, The 192 on the other hand is pretty damned good, despite what people who've never made records on them who spend more time on certain online forums arguing about gear than actually recording music say..

However, these will both be, along with the Hd Tdm Cards No fucking good once PT 11 comes out.

That's not to say however, that you WON'T get an awesomely powerful stable system running PT HD with TDM hardware,
BUT you will be forever chained to that set-up and that version of the software, with no possibility of future upgrades.

For me that's a deal breaker as 11 has some really cool features that are making me make the upgrade from V.9 as v10 did nothing to warrant me forking out over the odds for an upgrade!

Personally I'd go for Either a new Hd Native card and an 8x8x8, or just run a totally native system with what ever interface I want.

Option number 2 is more tempting to me right now, and it work's for me at the moment.

Let me know how you get on.

 

[TonyS.]

Thanks for the reply! To not be able to update to version 11 sucks...read about the stuff you posted a few minutes ago.
I think I will wait some time, until I tested the new version with my native rig.

At the moment I can run large projects at 64, sometimes 32 samples latency. Some plugins are not usable to track trough, but all in all it is a very quick and stable rig. mh...

 

[superfreak]

What about a UA Apollo 16? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Apollo16/

This is as close you get to HDX features on a Native system.

 

[TonyS.]

This was also in my mind. And at the moment it looks like a very nice and not too expensive solution(Apollo + Pro Tools Native 11). The only issue would be the limitation to the UAD Plugins, to get the smallest tracking latency?!

 

[superfreak]

Well, the UAD plugins are pretty good and you get a small bunch to get you started. The best combo would be an Apollo 16 + UAD-2 QUAD Omni (eBay).

 

[C-Martin]

I would also look into the Apollo as well if i was looking for the features you describe. If your not going with the new HDX stuff, the Apollo stuff looks like a great cheaper alternative, although you would have to purchase UAD plugins to get it's full potential. Stock plugins are cool but you really start to see the potential when you purchase a few of their other plugins, or you could get a pack like Superfreak mentioned to get you started.

I've owned a UAD-2 card for about a year now and although i first wanted to sell it because i thought i didn't need it, i've grown to appreciate the DSP and their plugins are really good IMO. They always come up with specials on plugins if your patient and wait for it, i got all of my plugins on discount. They seem to be coming up with new stuff or updated versions of their older plugins quite often, and if you own said older plugin you usually get the updated version for half price. They're updated 1176s are really kick ass and i find myself using it more than the CLA76 recently. I was planning on getting a 1176 clone but now i don't feel i need to anymore, unless it's just to satisfy my gear addiction.

Check their plugin list out and see if those satisfy your needs. The Apollo not only allows you to monitor with he plugins but can also track with the plugins as if you was using outboard. This is a cool feature if you like to print certain things on the way in. You can go Apollo 16 or you also can link 2 regular Apollo if you need ADAT instead of MADI.

 

[BLUElightCory]

If you want to go the Pro Tools HD route, an HD Native system is the way to go. Don't bother with a TDM system because as was already mentioned, they're obsolete.

Standard Pro Tools 11 is going to be a very powerful system as well, so if you pair it with an Apollo you'll have a pretty amazing setup. You'll be missing a few PTHD features but you'll save money and it'll be able to handle all of your needs.

Also, I did read (can't remember where at the moment) that PT11 will allow you to track through plugs with minimal latency. So that's cool.

 

[Fandus]

Yep,11 has a hybrid engine that lets the session run at a high buffer, with any record enabled tracks running at a low buffer.

 

[TonyS.]

Thanks for your answers!

After a lot of reading, a HD system is really not the best option for me!

The only problem with the apollo I have, is that you have to use the plugin for monitoring or printing. You can't just put it as a plugin in the Pro Tools Mixer...respectively, not with the minimal latency?!

Before I do any purchase, I will still wait to try out Pro Tools 11, to check the new buffer thing. Maybe this will do it for me.

 

[mickrich]

96io and 192io will be unsupported in PT11 on.
I have tracked with HDX and the new 16io and it sounds great and if getting HD is the only option worth getting going forward IMO.
I would suggest (as I always do) you get a ZED-R16 console.
You will no longer need to worry about plugin eq or zero latency headphone mixes for tracking.
You can send the mix plus an aux at the same time giving the artist a "more me" mix which is super useful.
Works great with PT too over firewire.
As said already, HD isn't really needed any more with computers as powerful as they are (and getting faster).

 

[Heabow]

Interesting thread. I was myself thinking about a more powerful PT system (HD Native). I don't have the money right now tho!

 

[Mikaël-ange]

If you need to track with plugin on your session, only way to go is HDX.

While HD TDM is still awesome to work with, don't go that way now...

 

[TonyS.]

If you need to track with plugin on your session, only way to go is HDX.

While HD TDM is still awesome to work with, don't go that way now...

...if have to sell my car for this shit

Think I still have to life with 3-5ms latency.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

...if have to sell my car for this shit

Think I still have to life with 3-5ms latency.

If you need one, the rig will be payed by itself in a couple of week, or month if you work with indie budget.

Question you have to ask yourself is do you need to record big track count at once, or overdubbing on a 100+ track session with low latency?

If not maybe give a look at HD native rig

 

[TonyS.]

I think I will stay with a full native system, and use that money for more outboard

 

[crillemannen]

If you have a great computer tracking last minute dubbs in a mixing session shouldn't be a problem. I can run my mixing sessions at 128buffer size without a problem. And if the project are huge just inactive some tracks.

 

[Heabow]

As we talk about HD native system, is it really interesting when the computer isn't that powerful (in my case, iMac dual core 3.06gHz with 4go) ? Or buying a bigger computer and keep working on PT10 sounds like a better option? I'm talking mainly about mixing large sessions with tons of plugins.