Problem with lead in blast section?

[Brutality001]

Hey guys, this is my first post, ive learned almost everything i know about mixing from reading around on this forum on and off for months.

So i owe you all a massive thanks!

However i do have a problem that i havent seen anyone bring up on here before, (sorry if i missed it)

Im making black metal-ish type stuff and i have a blast section with fast picking rhythms and a fast picking lead. I understand that half my problem maybe that the lead part is in the same octave as the rhythm but i just cant get it to fit in nicely and be clear at the same time.

Ive tried EQing the shit out of the lead, not much to say about that really

I was thinking about lowering the rhythms in that section a couple dbs and raising the lead a couple dbs, do people do that?? lol

or slightly scooping the rhythms in that section instead?? or both!??

Im not on my comp atm so i cannot upload anything right now, sorry.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Fandus]

post a clip, hard to help without hearing whats up.

 

[tenebre]

from just reading.... you really dont want the exact same audio range mangling the other... But hearing it would allow for better analysis.

 

[Brutality001]

ok thanks for your replies, i guess i could play it an octave higher.

I will upload the part im talking about later.

 

[Jrich4967]

what i am starting to do is turn down the rhythms during a lead part, not even turning up the lead,well, maybe .5 dB max. But yeah, i mean one thing you could do is pan it left or right and turn of the rhythm of that side, but it kind of makes a less professional sound because leads need to be in the middle lol. but yeah, id go with enveloping it down a couple dB and letting the lead become more prominent

 

[Brutality001]

Thanks Jrich4967, it definatly makes sense in my head.

Anyway i have uploaded the part im talking about.
Now dont worry this is a half assed rough mix i am using as a guide, the drums will be more detailed and the guitars and bass will be rerecorded with new strings and more effort.

The Section is from 0:15 to 0:49

Here it is unedited:




And here it is with -2db on the rhythm guitars and +1db on the lead:



I know the drop is noticeable but obviously that could be fixed, could probly do with a new tone on the lead aswell.

I havent referenced this with many other speakers/systems so sorry if it sounds like shit.

Again thanks for any help.

 

[Ascendant]

You could always try panning that lead to the left as if it was a rhythm guitar, take away the left rhythm and leave the right rhythm. Should leave you with a clearer mix. I believe they did it that way quite a lot on the MAYH album by Opeth and it works well.

 

[Brutality001]

Yeah i think i might have to with it being a low lead and all. Thanks

Think i might still play around with dropping rhythms for higher leads though, I got the idea the other day from listening to the Attera Totus Sanctus album by Dark Funeral with headphones and it sounded like that was what they were doing. I could be wrong though

 

[Mago]

I wouldnt also boost the lead if you're allread lowering the rhymth tracks.
Volume automation is the best solution for this imo, if you want it to be heared and not only "felt"

 

[Brutality001]

Thanks Mago, nah i wont boost the lead when i play around with this in the future. And its good to know that im not mental for thinking about this idea.

For now though i think i will go with Replacing the left rhythm. I just tried it and didnt think it would work so well, i always thought it would feel real unbalanced.

Heres a clip:


Still needs some tweaking but at least its there now.

Any more ideas/advice/criticisms or opinions are still welcome.

Thanks guys

 

[bryan_kilco]

To my ears the guitars seem too loud and are drowning the drums in the blast section, which makes everything sound a tad muddy. But the freqs of all the guitars sound like they are fighting the same areas.

 

[guitarguru777]

Ok as stated volume automation is the best solution and sounded the best out of everything you tried. IN addition for things like that you should also be using a different tone, one that complements the rythm guitars yet stays on top of the mix without needing any tweaking. Something with a bit more upper mids.

In addition to that as for the mix the guitars are too loud and have too much gain thats why you are having this problem in the first place. You have to crank the guitars sooooo loud just to hear them cause you are using too much gain. There is no clarity in the notes cause of that as well. Thats why when you bring in the new part you cant really hear it.

 

[Brutality001]

Thanks Bryan Kilco and Guitarguru777, you are right. i have listened again to all these clips with headphones on and the automated clip is definatly the best try. I am currantly toning down the guitars, i think alot of the problem was that i had alot of treble on the guitars although i have also turned down the gain.