Proper way to use a Noise Gate & Boost

[DeviusMetal]

Hello, i would like to ask some questions to everyone in the forum to get their opinion in this matter.
I want to focus the discussion on Live/gig playing
My gear: Valveking 100w head, usually through a Randall cab (cheap speakers... saving to get some V30s loaded), mic´d with a Shure SM57.
Guitar is a Schecter Demon 7 with a EMG 707.
I use a Line6 POD Xt in the effect loop of the Valveking, just for the noise gate, a little eq (those two are always on) and delay/chorus here and there.

I play in a Death Metal band.

Now, i want to ask some question my fellow comarades:
1. What is the best way to mic a cab for a live gig??? Mic position.
2. I am thinking on getting a TS9, Noise Gate, a Chorus and a Delay. What is the best way of using the boost/gate?
Researching on this i come to the conclusion that you must get the highest levels of gain while gating the unwanted noise, is this correct?
3. Valveking users, what levels of volume, gain do you recommend while using also the TS9 and the Gate?

Ok, thats all for now, hope to hear your opinions!

 

[Wolfeman]

Now, i want to ask some question my fellow comarades:
1. What is the best way to mic a cab for a live gig??? Mic position.
2. I am thinking on getting a TS9, Noise Gate, a Chorus and a Delay. What is the best way of using the boost/gate?
Researching on this i come to the conclusion that you must get the highest levels of gain while gating the unwanted noise, is this correct?
3. Valveking users, what levels of volume, gain do you recommend while using also the TS9 and the Gate?

1.- Where it sounds the best. It's usually the same place that sounds good when recording, although you can get away with being a little 'sloppier' with position on a live rig.

2.- You'd want guitar-boost-gate. Doing it the opposite will still net you a bunch of noise/hiss from the pedal itself. I know with my boosts I've owned (OD808/OD820) they were unbearable in my opinion. Just set the gate threshold to a reasonable level where you get crisp cutoff when you mute the strings, but not high enough to cut off notes too early when letting strings ring out.

3.- Going to be dependent on what you are going for, your playing style, the boost you use, etc.

 

[DeviusMetal]

So the Boost and Gate goes to the front of the amp and the chorus and delay go to the FX loop?

 

[Wolfeman]

So the Boost and Gate goes to the front of the amp and the chorus and delay go to the FX loop?

That's what I would do.

I always like any effects that are time based in the loop. You can try them out in front after the boost and gate, but the loop will most likely be the place you want them.

 

[DeviusMetal]

Wolfeman, i added you to facebook... seeing that you are a technician seems like a wise move haha... if you dont mind ill like to ask you some other things, if its much of a burden... i understand!
Thanks!

 

[ahjteam]

If your noise pedal has a loop (like Boss NS2), put it so that it's guitar -> gate input -> gate loop send -> other pedals -> gate loop return -> gate output -> amp input

 

[DeviusMetal]

Nice advise, i am considering getting a boss ns 2 or a isp decimator, the thing with this last one is that i got to be very lucky to get it pass the customs here and i dont like to rely on that...
Instead the boss NS2 (like most boss pedals) is fairly available here...

is the isp decimator THAT good to justify me trying to get it via ebay?

 

[Wolfeman]

is the isp decimator THAT good to justify me trying to get it via ebay?

IMO, yes.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Researching on this i come to the conclusion that you must get the highest levels of gain while gating the unwanted noise, is this correct?

This has always perturbed me about metal bands live. 90% of the time they are using too much gain on their guitars and it all becomes a blur. I would say play with as little gain as you can and your shit will sound clearer than any foot switch or mic position can get you.

 

[DeviusMetal]

I agree... but partially, sure you will get a clearer sound but in a live situation you definetly need the high gain of a HIGH GAIN amp... When recording of course is better to get lesser gain in favor of more guitars to get some nice textures.

I play in a deathcore band and im the only guitarist, is getting really hard to fulfill the sound spectre... so i need all the gain i can get out of the amp and thats why i ask about the noise gate, because i dont want annoying feedback and those sort of things...

 

[rispsira]

I a agree with not using too much gain though if there is no "double tracking" like in a studio; in other words if you are the only guitarist you will need a BIT more gain.

Anyway i wouldnt add anything to all the advice given here which is great except that the chorus is great in the loop but you should try it in front as well as it sounds not better but different. Then you can decide what you want. you might need both. but then again it depends on the music you're playing.

 

[DeviusMetal]

Another question! Im about to get a boost/OD pedal, in store they have a TS-9 and a TS-808, the latest being a little more expensive but i can buy it.
Which one should i get? Which of the two interacts better with a Valveking head?
I play death metal (guitar tones i like: Gojira, Oceano, etc) so, what do you recommend ts-9 or 808? (sadly i cannot get a Maxon OD820)

 

[Wolfeman]

Either or will be fine, I'd go with the cheaper one. They aren't extremely different, just a little.

 

[DeviusMetal]

Thanks!

 

[DeviusMetal]

Can you recommend me some settings for the TS9? Gain, Tone and Level and also which settings should i use on the valveking head (gain, volume)
I want to get the best combination for a tight distortion.
I tested one ts9 and really liked it, but the noise gate from my Pod xt live barely handled the noise, so also, settings for the noise gate? (thinking on getting a ISP decimator but later, for now, i use the built in noise gate in the POD)...
Thanks!

 

[ahjteam]

Can you recommend me some settings for the TS9? Gain, Tone and Level and also which settings should i use on the valveking head (gain, volume)
I want to get the best combination for a tight distortion.
I tested one ts9 and really liked it, but the noise gate from my Pod xt live barely handled the noise, so also, settings for the noise gate? (thinking on getting a ISP decimator but later, for now, i use the built in noise gate in the POD)...
Thanks!

I would say start so that you dial in a good tone from the amp first so that you are going just guitar -> ts -> amp. Never mind the noise yet. Put TS to the "passive settings" with gain at min, tone at max and level at noon, so it's basically doing nothing except cutting out the low end. Then when you think you have the "greatest tone of all time", do the minor tweaking on the pedal and lower the input gain and bass on the amp just a tad to compensate, as you most likely have just a bit too much of them on the amp. or at least I usually do Then put the gate before the TS if it is an option. I usually use these clock face settings:

pod gate / ns2:
- decay fastest possible
- threshold as high as needed (I usually have mine around 30% on pod farm, but YMMV)

TS9:
- level so that the sound is about as loud when bypassed, means usually around 10:00-1:00
- tone to taste, start from max, lower if too fizzy, mine is usually around 11:00-3:00
- gain to taste, start from minimum, increase to taste. Mine is usually between 9:00-3:00 depending on the tone I'm looking for

 

[ttrentt]

2.- You'd want guitar-boost-gate. Doing it the opposite will still net you a bunch of noise/hiss from the pedal itself. I know with my boosts I've owned (OD808/OD820) they were unbearable in my opinion. Just set the gate threshold to a reasonable level where you get crisp cutoff when you mute the strings, but not high enough to cut off notes too early when letting strings ring out.

I had always been under the impression that you want to always have the boost directly before the amp, other wise you are "boosting" the input on the gate and could lead to non-nice distortion.

 

[Harley Barley]

This has always perturbed me about metal bands live. 90% of the time they are using too much gain on their guitars and it all becomes a blur. I would say play with as little gain as you can and your shit will sound clearer than any foot switch or mic position can get you.

This is a huge part of a live sound, on my jsx i have the gain on no higher then two, where you get the sound/tone from is the loudness of the amp (master volume or channel volume). If your playing at a quiet volume in your room.. your gonna need more gain so it doesn't sound like your playing an tiny overdriven amp but once your playing loud enough to jam with drums and a bass turn the gain down until its clearer and you don't have the HUGE wall of sound/noise.. but a huge wall of notes and punch. EQ is also another big thing about a live tone don't scoop the shit out of your mids in a live situation the guitar needs those mids to cut threw a mix. My two cents anyways

 

[DeviusMetal]

Finally i got the Ts 808, the colour and tone it adds to the head is great, im still testing it though.
Its normal that the noise gate on my POD is almost at the highest setting? (Treshold -10db and 0% decay)? or should i cut down the gain on the head and the TS808, and if so, how much gain of each is recommendable?
I mean: 30% Ts 808 and 70% from the head?

 

[mickrich]

I use TS808 to Rocktron Hush to amp.
Works great.
The Hush before the screamer wasn't as good for me.