My choice of style has no bearing on how much I enjoy classical music, I just find Jazz more fun to play.
Uh, so anyway, Psycroptic rule.
Uh, so anyway, Psycroptic rule.
Psycroptic or Deranged
- Thread starter Minion520
- Start date
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
I see no problem with Psycroptic's composiiton either. If there's anything wrong with it, it's at least better than Necrophagist's composition.
Also, composition can be classed as subjective. For instance, Mr. Bungle's music follows about...none of the classical composition rules. Yet, it's brilliantly written music(or anti-music, whatever) ever made. It all depends on what the listener is seeking. Hence why verse-chorus-verse is not a bad way to go, as it is good composition in the eyes of many. It's just trite in my eyes, is all.
I'd rather hear death metal in the vein of Psycroptic.
Also, composition can be classed as subjective. For instance, Mr. Bungle's music follows about...none of the classical composition rules. Yet, it's brilliantly written music(or anti-music, whatever) ever made. It all depends on what the listener is seeking. Hence why verse-chorus-verse is not a bad way to go, as it is good composition in the eyes of many. It's just trite in my eyes, is all.
I'd rather hear death metal in the vein of Psycroptic.
Cythraul
Active Member
- Dec 10, 2003
- 6,755
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Int said:
1) I'll start by stating what a substantial idea is not, and in this case I'll use Psycroptic as an example. The aim of Psycroptic's music is to impress and cause easily amused metalheads to go "OMFG, what crazy music!!" How is their music not of this type? It's clear that Psycroptic doesn't pay much attention to compositional quality or coherency. Their songs seem to flow only because of the fact that a given song of theirs revolves around a single key center with deviations from the key center achieved through chromaticism. Their music sounds like it almost follows some logical order because any song with riff after riff revolving around the same key center will sound semi-coherent. At the same time their music is seemingly unorthodox because they employ chromaticism. This in itself is not a criticism. What I described above would be fine if Psycroptic songs actually developed in some way. They don't develop, they are riff collections. Stating a theme, and then proceeding to insert a mish-mash of riffs that don't develop from the original theme, and then restating the original riff at some later point in the song does not make a song unified or logical. As far as their riffs are concerned, the bulk of them consist of melodies unrelated to one another or fast scale runs which aren't musical statements. They are ascending, descending, and other various combinations of scale exercises inserted amidst more measured and composed riffs. The worst part is when they don't even bother to finish a phrase/ riff and instead opt to finish it off with a fucking scale lick. It's all flash. It's akin to a bad story that paints an interesting picture with words yet has no plot to speak of. The quality in music that I'm referring to is something other than speed, technicality, and other visceral aspects found in much metal. It refers to the quality of the composition. Psycroptic's music is barely composed, it's riff-collection material like I already stated. Substantial music expresses ideas which come in the form of musical statements and phrases. Riff collections are not good compositions because they are not truly composed. Scale runs are not substantial because they are generic and easily reproduced. Themes and melodies that are unrelated to eachother and unrelated to the whole of the composition are only expressive as individual themes and melodies. The whole of the composition is crap because it lacks unity. Well composed music does not pander to base-minded expectations such as complexity, technicality, speed, heaviness, etc. In general, any good art is equal parts cerebral and emotional, NOT masturbatory.
2) I won't include any metal bands for your question because I simply don't regard metal as the top of the heap for what I really value in music. I will list these:
Joaquin Rodrigo- Concierto de Aranjuez
W.A. Mozart- Piano Concerto No. 23 in A
J.S. Bach- Double Violin Concerto in D minor as well as the Brandenburg concertos
Elend- The Umbersun
Dead Can Dance- Aion
Tangerine Dream- Phaedra
^ The reason I like those is because they are creative in terms of musical ideas, the songs/pieces are well composed and coherent, and they embody the qualities that are lacking in Psycroptic and other bands like them.
AsModEe
also known as ass-mode
AsModEe
also known as ass-mode
Demilich
Remember
How 'bout we all just listen to music for our own reasons and stop trying to make ourselves sound smart by asserting said reasons as something objective?
Regardless of the intentions of the music's creators, each fan can find their own reasons to enjoy any piece of music. Some types of music don't have to be "well composed" in the traditional sense to be effective in creating an emotional response, which is an important part of music to many people.
The notion that people are worse off for understanding how music "should be" composed because they haven't studied it in a class is fucking pathetic, and contrary to true innovation. If we are to take the tenets of classical music composition to be the best way of composing metal songs, anything we percieve as innovation will have to fall within that framework.
Regardless of the intentions of the music's creators, each fan can find their own reasons to enjoy any piece of music. Some types of music don't have to be "well composed" in the traditional sense to be effective in creating an emotional response, which is an important part of music to many people.
The notion that people are worse off for understanding how music "should be" composed because they haven't studied it in a class is fucking pathetic, and contrary to true innovation. If we are to take the tenets of classical music composition to be the best way of composing metal songs, anything we percieve as innovation will have to fall within that framework.
AsModEe
also known as ass-mode
AsModEe
also known as ass-mode
anonymousnick2001
World's Greatest Vocalist
Part of what makes metal interesting is its amazing diversity. Metal has the possibility of coming within a hair of classical music's sophistication and ingenuity, and on the opposite end of the scale, it can be sloppy and dirty and a rollicking good time. Both are equally valid in the metal world, and I as well as others can appreciate both entertainment and artistic worth in the genre. Composition is entirely necessary when it is entirely necessary. Otherwise, it could mean jack shit as far as how a song works or not.
If classical composition is what you expect from every piece of music you hear, then perhaps you shouldn't be listening to metal. It's not classical, regardless of how close it comes at times.
I'll join those who don't care about composition and simply appreciate it when it's done well.
Also, it is an observation I've made that death metal is more akin to jazz while black metal leans toward the classical elements. By jazz standards, Psycroptic are pretty much on the money.
If classical composition is what you expect from every piece of music you hear, then perhaps you shouldn't be listening to metal. It's not classical, regardless of how close it comes at times.
I'll join those who don't care about composition and simply appreciate it when it's done well.
Also, it is an observation I've made that death metal is more akin to jazz while black metal leans toward the classical elements. By jazz standards, Psycroptic are pretty much on the money.
AsModEe
also known as ass-mode
