punchy snare: how to?

[kool98769]

So, if i want the low end thump of a snare to cut through the mix real nice...
think memphis may fire's latest album (without it sounding like shit of course)
would this work?
Boost the low end of snare a few dB. This will leave it peaking a descent amount over the rest of the things in the 100-300hz region. Then, run a multiband comp to comp this region to take the snare hits down to the level of everything else in the region when it hits so you don't duck the master? Because if you take the traditional ideal of cutting those frequencies from other things such as guitars and whatnot, it creates somewhat of a compromise with tone of other instruments.
Or when the comp kicks in will it just make the mix muddy when the snare hits?

Or how much does that even matter?

Just a thought.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16665737/FTOIL NEW MIX 2.mp3
Imagine this, with more low end thud, and less smack?

 

[sam14]

A little trick I use it to cut the 200hz range out of my guitars, as it allows the "thump" of the snare to shine through a bit more, without actually adjusting any faders.
remember: it is always better to cut that to boost when it comes to EQ, you can't add what was never really there, but you can cut out the crap to give a better sound.

 

[kool98769]

well, I should mention that it wouldn't be boosted until after subtractive EQ. but I hate doing that, because I already usually cut a little out of that region for bass guitar anyway. I mean, i know that the "balls" of guitar lies a little higher in frequency, but I still feel like the 150-300 range on guitar is semi important to not completely annihilate.

 

[bryan_kilco]

A little trick I use it to cut the 200hz range out of my guitars, as it allows the "thump" of the snare to shine through a bit more, without actually adjusting any faders.
remember: it is always better to cut that to boost when it comes to EQ, you can't add what was never really there, but you can cut out the crap to give a better sound.

Someone on here gave me this advice and it helped my entire mixes a LOT!

Cut around 200hz in the strings and maybe even kick and boost the same frequency in the snare. Worked great for me!

 

[kool98769]

Someone on here gave me this advice and it helped my entire mixes a LOT!

Cut around 200hz in the strings and maybe even kick and boost the same frequency in the snare. Worked great for me!

Really? I usually cut the shit out of the 200hz region in my kick to clear space for bass guitar...hmmm

 

[sam14]

To clarify, it is only a small cut, not completely removing it, but a definite dip around the 200hz range of the guitars.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Really? I usually cut the shit out of the 200hz region in my kick to clear space for bass guitar...hmmm

I normally cut my kick drum a bit lower than 200 to make space for the kick. Should have thought that last post through a bit better. But maybe try like 100-150 for bass/kick, and 200 for guitars/snare. But then - maybe I'm going about that backwards. (for the kick/bass that is)......

 

[bryan_kilco]

To clarify, it is only a small cut, not completely removing it, but a definite dip around the 200hz range of the guitars.

I found that as little as 2-3 dB cut/boost does the job. But sometimes my snare sounds too bass-heavy and not enough high-end crack.

 

[kool98769]

I found that as little as 2-3 dB cut/boost does the job. But sometimes my snare sounds too bass-heavy and not enough high-end crack.

The last mix i did on one of my bands songs I ran into that, but then I realized that it's because I had a compressor on the snare...I forgot about the concept of compressors not only being dynamics controllers, but they're also sound shapers. Keep that in mind!

To clarify, it is only a small cut, not completely removing it, but a definite dip around the 200hz range of the guitars.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I feel like anything past 3dB kinda leaves a void in the tone.

 

[ahjteam]

 

[kool98769]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d79FqXHLBVg

err. i'm not really having issues getting the snare to cut through, more of issues wanting more low end thud/crack...I added a link to the mix of mine I had in mind.

 

[Uros]

Depends on the sample/snare. Punchy snare is all about how you compress it. Generally, set release fast to moderate (meaning, just so you don't cause pumping - start at fastest release available and go from there), attack slowish to moderate to let initial transient to pop (but not so slow that you don't even get any gain reduction at all; start at fastest attack setting available and go from there. LISTEN!), 4-8:1 ratio, and play with threshold 'till you get that juice.

edit: I listened the track. Hm, snare is pretty weak in volume. Yeah, try running bell boost in 150-250 Hz region, don't be afraid to boost even by 9-12dB if you feel like it. But as said, you also have to compress it.

 

[jackbraglia]

yea...2 words: envelope shaping. thread over

edit: if you want the low end to punch more try bussing the snare to another channel, lo pass it, and then add attack with an envelope shaping plug in of some kind. I've actually only ever done this to add more low end punch to a kick, but theoretically it should work fine on a snare too. use this in conjunction with cutting those freqs everywhere else and you should get a pretty epic punch to your snare

 

[arv_foh]

Boost 200hz.

 

[chrisrivalry]

what works best for me is finding a snare sample that adds that thud, for me fatcity does wonders.

 

[sebby123]

Transient designer, Compression, EQ, Parallel Compression = punchy snare... Not in that order but really its so specific to the mix your working on, Probably not what you wanted to hear but really theres no tricks to it.

 

[kool98769]

Transient designer, Compression, EQ, Parallel Compression = punchy snare... Not in that order but really its so specific to the mix your working on, Probably not what you wanted to hear but really theres no tricks to it.

Well, that's what i've been doing. I've always wondered about what i described in the OP though...guess there's only one way to find out.

 

[RedDog]

Else fails, break out the clipper.

 

[hurdy]

Someone on here gave me this advice and it helped my entire mixes a LOT!

Cut around 200hz in the strings and maybe even kick and boost the same frequency in the snare. Worked great for me!

Glad to hear that your mixes are improving from that advice in this thread http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/717857-how-do-low-end.html
May help others too, and I agree with about 2 -3 db. This is enough to cut/boost, sometimes even less.

 

[Clark Kent]

Personally I just use SPL Transient Designer for that punchy snare sound. It's such a simple tool and you can make a snare sound impossibly punchy without worrying that you'll mess up the snare with EQ. One knob is punch.. the other is tail. Simple as that. And the more punch you add, the better your snare will pop out in a mix. F.ex. I mixed this song and was going for that over the top in your face Paramore type of snare. I don't think I did much to that snare except Transient Designer. EQing some ring out -> black 1176 -> SPL TD. I know it's not natural sounding but that's not what I was going for.