Question about gain, tubes, and overdrive pedals!

[DURBANS]

Hi

I use a Laney GH100TI head and matching cab.

Guitar is an Ibanez RG1527 7 String with Seymour Duncan Invaders.

I was fooling around with the amp, it does have a lot of gain but it seems to be unfocused, meaning a lot of frequencies sound out of place or harsh and the final feeling is that there is not enought gain to palm mute or do fast tremolo palm muted picking (I play death metal).

I use gain on 7 (2 o'clock) and after tweaking A LOT with the eq controls on the amp I managed to get a more or less gain and sound.

BUT I was fooling around with a BOSS Super Overdrive SD-1 pedal I got and I found out that, by using the pedal with the level on max, tone on the middle and drive on 0, the amp sounded extremely distorted, focused and concise. Now, I had to turn the amp's gain to around 5 (12 o'clock) or a bit less to get the sound I wanted.

Why is this happening?

I mean, the pedal has NO DRIVE at all yet it seems to focus all te frecuencies and channel them into distortion or whatever making the amp sound amazing. I even tried putting the pedal on a clean amp to see how much gain it was added to the signal and it was nothing, I mean, a LITTLE very little overdrive was there but, I mean, is this enough to make the amp's gain knob go from 7 to 4.5 to get a distrtion similar to a 5150?

So the thing is:

I don't like to use OD pedals on my amps, specially high gain tube amps designed for metal. So, I wanted to know the following:

1) Will changing the tubes on my amp with higher gain tubes like JJ's, will make the amp sound the same but without using an od-pedal?

2) Will using a 10 band eq on the amp's loop will make the amp sound the same but without using an od-pedal?

Ok, Not "the same" but at least in terms of DISTORTION!!!

Thanks in advance, really need some help before ordering, but I don't wanna use the OD pedal in front of the amp, don't ask why.

 

[JeffTD]

It's because it's working mostly like a clean boost, and just kicking your preamp in the ass.

1. No, high gain tubes will not do the same thing as an OD pedal, but it will change the tone of the amp.

2. Again, no. Using an OD pedal not only cleanly boosts it, but add's a nice coating to the top of the sound, and saturates it more. This is why you have to lower the gain.

Trust me, using the OD infront of the amp is the best idea. Switching to EMG's would also be a good thing, IMO.

That said, if the OD infront of the amp gives you the sound you're looking for, then why not just run it?

 

[sorceron]

yea man, using a pedal in front of an amp is pretty common, even for people playing metal with high gain amps. dont stress it.

 

[silverwulf]

Using an OD pedal not only cleanly boosts it, but add's a nice coating to the top of the sound...

I'm just the opposite. I hate the coating that it adds on top of the sound. To me, it almost starts sounding artificial. But I agree with DSS3 on the point that if using the SD-1 in front is giving you the sound you want, why not just keep using it?

I think those Iommi head's are pretty awesome. I run JJ's in the preamp of all of my amps. I think it does help tighten the sound and "clean up" the clean sounds. I think that you can probably achieve the sound you want by messing some more with your amp's EQ. Just give a try and be patient with it.

 

[DURBANS]

Thanks for the reply.

Is there a way of getting the amp to sound the way it does with the clean boost of the od pedal without any mods to my guitar or pedals?

I mean, Invaders are pretty hot pups right?

My next guitar will be a Gibson Flying V '67 which has the 500T on the bridge, and, it's mahogny and not basswood. Will that help?

 

[silverwulf]

The 500T is a pretty hot pickup, so that will definitely give you a good output.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

I was a long time Boss SD-1 user, and used it in the typical fashion (drive all the way down, level all the way up hitting a dirty channel). Then I happened upon a used Maxon 808 for $20 and could not pass it up. I brought it home and did some silly a/b comparisons betwixt the two.

My conclusions were that they had VERY similar top end/grit added, but the SD-1 sucked out a LOT more low end than the 808 did. Hence, the SD-1 went on eBay and is not missed.

 

[guitarguru777]

This is a grwat thread. i didnt know a clean boos in the front would make all that much difference....

Do you think it would have the same effect on a solid state amp that models tubes.... probably not but it makes for a good experiment.

Da Fukn Guru

 

[Nitronium Blood]

I use gain on 7

Please explain.

 

[guitarguru777]

He has his gain knob on his amp turned to 7 on its dial.

Da Fukn Guru

 

[Nitronium Blood]

He has his gain knob on his amp turned to 7 on its dial.

Da Fukn Guru

Ask him about his 'original' gain knob position.

 

[silverwulf]

This is a grwat thread. i didnt know a clean boos in the front would make all that much difference....

Do you think it would have the same effect on a solid state amp that models tubes.... probably not but it makes for a good experiment.

Da Fukn Guru

I think it would definitely help. My bandmate has a Randall 200W Solid State Head, and we use my Maxon OD-808 in front of it to liven it up and make it sound better. As a matter of fact, at our last gig, with me using my Recto and him using his Randall with the Maxon, we had another band on the bill tell us our tone sounded a lot like "Master of Puppets with more balls"... I'll see if I can dig up some sound clips for you.

I don't care much for how it sounds in front of a tube amp, but that's just me. I don't see the need for it with my amp. A majority of players here do use some type of OD pedal as a boost, though.

I really dig the Maxon OD-808. I've tried a bunch of them...Boss SD-1, Maxon OD-808, Maxon OD-9, etc...and the OD-808 was the one I kept.

 

[guitarguru777]

Cool ... off to ebay i go

Da Fukn Guru

 

[guitarguru777]

Cool ... off to ebay i go

Da Fukn Guru

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I think it would definitely help. My bandmate has a Randall 200W Solid State Head, and we use my Maxon OD-808 in front of it to liven it up and make it sound better. As a matter of fact, at our last gig, with me using my Recto and him using his Randall with the Maxon, we had another band on the bill tell us our tone sounded a lot like "Master of Puppets with more balls"... I'll see if I can dig up some sound clips for you.

I don't care much for how it sounds in front of a tube amp, but that's just me. I don't see the need for it with my amp. A majority of players here do use some type of OD pedal as a boost, though.

I really dig the Maxon OD-808. I've tried a bunch of them...Boss SD-1, Maxon OD-808, Maxon OD-9, etc...and the OD-808 was the one I kept.

I wanna try one of those fucken randall cyclone heads out. I've been hearing good things.

 

[sorceron]

I wanna try one of those fucken randall cyclone heads out. I've been hearing good things.

i had one briefly, i had mixed feelings about it. some days id power it up and think damn thats heavy! the eq is cool. its defenitely good for the solid state metal sound.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

I really liked it on the last down album, it had that cardboardy crunch type of sound.

 

[sorceron]

I really liked it on the last down album, it had that cardboardy crunch type of sound.

yea i liked that tone as well, i didnt know it was that amp though. thats rad

 

[daveotero]

I don't dig the Randalls too much. A few years ago doing the Cephalic - Lucid Interval project Zac had a custom Randall cyclone he traded Sammy (Crowbar, Acid Bath, Goatwhore) for. This thing was modded to 400 watts and was insanely powerful.

We ended up using metal zones with a parm EQ into the cyclone for power. Not that the tones we got we're really that great but I remember the Randall just fucking sucking. my 2 cents...

 

[Dawn Patrol]

Anyone used Seymour Duncans Pickup Booster Pedal in front of the amp?