Tubes for more gain?

[DURBANS]

Hi

I just bought a Laney GH100TI head (Toni Iommi model). It used 4 ECC83's and 4 EL34's (can used 6L6 as well). It has a toroidal transformer.

I play death metal / thrash metal in the style of Arch Enemy, Carcass, Morbid Angel, new Exodus etc. Most of these bands use Peavey 5150's or Mesa. I really like the amount of gain and tone of these amps, but I do like the British sound of the Laney, sounds a bit more organic.

Problem is that when I raise the gain, it sounds a bit un-focused and very treble-oriented, very. It gets almost to the point which I can palm mute and all but it lacks a bit of gain and definition, I need to make the gain sound a bit more chunky and present. Basically, a tad more gain to help me get those fast palm-muted notes to sound butttery and focused.

I've been told that maybe by changing the tubes I will get MORE gain, less treble noise and an overall better sounding amp.

Now, what tubes would you reccomend for these purposes? And, of course, will changing the tubes, add more gain and focus?

 

[Razorjack]

You can get your preamp tubes gain-tested to give more gain (I use www.watfordvalves.com who are based in the UK).

 

[DIOBOLIC5150]

Is the gain past 6 o'clock? ... Cheap shot! hehe.

 

[sorceron]

throw a tube screamer in front.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

try to horde as many NOS (new old stock) mullards as you can but dont be a felcher and pay NOS prices for them...

 

[black sugar]

I guess the first question is do you really need more gain? The fizzy/farty effect that you're hearing seems to me like you might just be going for too much in general. I'm not sure if high gain preamp tubes will help that.

Playing with a little less gain than you really want will make you a better player in the long run, and probably help you cut through the mix with your band in the short term.

Stop turning up the gain or start playing with the eq when it starts to sound like shit.

All the settings on your amp are very interactive, so you should really try everything before you start swapping out tubes, etc.

But yes, stock tubes can be shite. If you're going to change them try Electro-Harmonix if you gig a lot. Inexpensive, very rugged, super low noise, and good tone, too.

 

[marcust]

hey,
i have a marshall tsl same tubes there
try a tubescreamer in front of the laney you'll have loads of gain
and !!! a tighter sound believe me ...

 

[SickBoy]

Problem is that when I raise the gain, it sounds a bit un-focused and very treble-oriented, very. It gets almost to the point which I can palm mute and all but it lacks a bit of gain and definition, I need to make the gain sound a bit more chunky and present. Basically, a tad more gain to help me get those fast palm-muted notes to sound butttery and focused.

I've been told that maybe by changing the tubes I will get MORE gain, less treble noise and an overall better sounding amp.

Now, what tubes would you reccomend for these purposes? And, of course, will changing the tubes, add more gain and focus?

There are a few factors in the tone of your amp besides the preamp tubes.
If you do want to increase gain in your preamp section, maybe you could try out JJ/Tesla ECC83S tubes, as they are very quiet, sound nice and have increased gain when compared to standard ECC83. Check out www.eurotubes.com, Bob stocks only JJ/Tesla tubes, he's very helpful and has killer prices.

The fizziness you mention could very likely be due to your cab as well. Different cabs have different speakers inside and not every one sounds the same. Try taking your head to your friend's who has a different cab. If you then like the sound better, you just need to check what speakers his cab holds inside. For example, I've read about many players switching from G12T-75 loaded cab to V30 or Greenback ones, cause they felt that 75 was harsh in the upper range.

In the end, more gain won't in fact make your palm muting sound buttery and focused, it's in fact more achievable with strong picking hand attack and less gain, but your amp has to produce a tight and smooth tone so you could achieve this.

 

[sorceron]

yea its true. every head ive ever owned(quite a few) sounded better on vintage 30's then the 75's. but thats may be just me.

There are a few factors in the tone of your amp besides the preamp tubes.
If you do want to increase gain in your preamp section, maybe you could try out JJ/Tesla ECC83S tubes, as they are very quiet, sound nice and have increased gain when compared to standard ECC83. Check out www.eurotubes.com, Bob stocks only JJ/Tesla tubes, he's very helpful and has killer prices.

The fizziness you mention could very likely be due to your cab as well. Different cabs have different speakers inside and not every one sounds the same. Try taking your head to your friend's who has a different cab. If you then like the sound better, you just need to check what speakers his cab holds inside. For example, I've read about many players switching from G12T-75 loaded cab to V30 or Greenback ones, cause they felt that 75 was harsh in the upper range.

In the end, more gain won't in fact make your palm muting sound buttery and focused, it's in fact more achievable with strong picking hand attack and less gain, but your amp has to produce a tight and smooth tone so you could achieve this.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

I hate T75's... In a word - HARSH. V30 is the penultimate rock/metal speaker.

What SickBoy said is very true... if you use TOO MUCH gain/saturation it will make stuff sound the ass. The right hand and technique also has a LOT to do with it... guitar setup too. For Floyd guitars I put tissues in the trem spring cavity to stop the "boing" on starty stoppy chunks... also.. killing chunks with your fret hand right below the nut when you chug is much better than landing near 3rd or 5th fret because that will pull harmonics..

i am mullard fan boi.. love em.. cant get enuff of em.. ive got 61's and 71's the old shit.. love em.... tubes are everything. a nasty set of cheez chinese sound like ASS on any amp. this is fact.

 

[SickBoy]

killing chunks with your fret hand right below the nut when you chug is much better than landing near 3rd or 5th fret because that will pull harmonics..

Hear hear...
I was just telling that to the other guitarist in my band, because he got the muted low E string ringing between the chugs, cause he wasn't muting it with his fretting hand as well. His reply was "I just wanted to hear how that ringing would sound in the song". Yeah, right...

i am mullard fan boi.. love em.. cant get enuff of em.. ive got 61's and 71's the old shit.. love em.... tubes are everything. a nasty set of cheez chinese sound like ASS on any amp. this is fact.

I would really like to be a Mullard fan boy, but they're too far out of my budget! I'd like to try them out, though, just to see for myself is it worth saving extra (and I mean heavy extra!) bucks for them.
Just a note for those keen to give Mullard a try, don't buy them at TubeStore.
It's got nothing to do with the store itself (which is great, btw), but the tubes, who aren't real Mullards. Yes, they have the name, but it's only because someone bought the rights to it, those tubes by all accounts aren't even remotely comparable to real vintage Mullards.
Ether, what's your source for NOS Mullards, eBay or elsewhere?

It seems many players dig JJ/Tesla tubes these days, some even call them the best new production tubes available. I use them and they're pretty good so far.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

hey sick.......

my papa does ham radio repair.. and i basically snag ALL of the tubes from him shop and put it shitty replacements ( i know.. bad karma.. i might go to hell)

the Groove Tube reissues are not bad.. and far be it for me to be mr eric johnson " i can tell the difference from an energizer battery from a duracell battery" tyupe thing but.. in my marshalls i love old mullards...

on top of my papa ganking tube scheme.. i alos buy "lots" on ebay.. like tube lots.. mostly on buy it now and things of that nature.. i recently scored some bitching almost perfect plate testing 1961 blackburns for about 8 bucks....

 

[SickBoy]

my papa does ham radio repair.. and i basically snag ALL of the tubes from him shop and put it shitty replacements ( i know.. bad karma.. i might go to hell)

And you will, but not because of your old man, but because we (who don't have the access to the goods as you do) will curse your nick till the day you die!

i alos buy "lots" on ebay.. like tube lots.. mostly on buy it now and things of that nature.. i recently scored some bitching almost perfect plate testing 1961 blackburns for about 8 bucks....

You mean you got them in one of those lots?
I just saw two lots on eBay, one consisting of 80+ and the other of 110+ tubes. However, since I have no tube testing geat whatsoever, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to find a proper working tube in there...