Question about phase / comb filtering...

[guitarguru777]

Last night I was doing some re-amping with my friends Mesa tremo-o-verb and for shits and giggles I also re-amped through my Krank and 5150 just to compare.

My question is how is it possible that without moving the mic at all that when I try and blend each amp i am getting this phasing. Its kinda driving me nuts. mic is the same distance from the cab in the exact same spot. Only thing that moved during the entire process was the speaker cable from head to head.

I'm thinking it may just be comb filtering and I may just have to shift each file a few ms in either direction

Thoughts ideas?

Is there some fundamental piece I am forgetting?

 

[Skinny Viking]

were you using the same DI for the 3 sets of reamps?

 

[guitarguru777]

yup

 

[Skinny Viking]

thats probably your problem ... even though its different amps, its essentially the same performance. If there are 2 sets of DIs (different performances) for the guitar tracks, reamp them with 2 different amps and then try blending for your overall tone. If you were trying to blend 2 amps for a final tone PER SIDE, you would need a separate performance for each ... ie- quad-tracked

 

[guitarguru777]

I have 4 total performances of the song panned in the following way:

Guitar L - Performance 1
Guitar R - Performance 2
Guitar 70 - Performance 3
Guitar 70 - Performance 4

Each one is a different take, then I re-amped each one through all 3 amps. Even when I mix 2 separate performances I get some odd phasing issues that make it sound like there is some kind of flanger / phaser on it.

Like if I go:

Mesa 100L
Mesa 100R
Krank 70L
Krank 70R

It still gets all weird.

 

[Force666]

an extra gain-stage can flip the phase between two amps. did you try flipping the phase on either track?

 

[guitarguru777]

Yup, but only with 8 tracks playing ... Ill try it with just the 4 and see how it goes.

 

[grywolf627]

Guru, can you post some clips sometime?

 

[grywolf627]

...If you were trying to blend 2 amps for a final tone PER SIDE, you would need a separate performance for each ... ie- quad-tracked

Not necessarily, Carlos. I mean, yes...I know exactly what you mean. (it's one of my biggest pet peeves when people think if they use the same performance run through different amps they're finding a quick way of double/quad tracking ). But, there's nothing WRONG with blending amps from the same performance to get a specific sound. It's been done a loooong time (and I have done it myself many times)...AS LONG AS you're aware that there may be strange phase issues causing things to go all wonky and not workout the way you planned.

 

[Skinny Viking]

I have 4 total performances of the song panned in the following way:

Guitar L - Performance 1
Guitar R - Performance 2
Guitar 70 - Performance 3
Guitar 70 - Performance 4

Each one is a different take, then I re-amped each one through all 3 amps. Even when I mix 2 separate performances I get some odd phasing issues that make it sound like there is some kind of flanger / phaser on it.

Like if I go:

Mesa 100L
Mesa 100R
Krank 70L
Krank 70R

It still gets all weird.

ok well thats different than what I originally asked and you answered "yes" to ... I was under the impression you had 1 DI that you reamped with 3 different amps and then tried blending the same take with the different reamped tones

Since that seems to not be the case now, I'll have to defer to someone else who might know whats going on cause I don't

 

[Skinny Viking]

Not necessarily, Carlos. I mean, yes...I know exactly what you mean. (it's one of my biggest pet peeves when people think if they use the same performance run through different amps they're finding a quick way of double/quad tracking ). But, there's nothing WRONG with blending amps from the same performance to get a specific sound. It's been done a loooong time (and I have done it myself many times)...AS LONG AS you're aware that there may be strange phase issues causing things to go all wonky and not workout the way you planned.

oh no I totally agree and I know for a fact that specific type of sound has been used on purpose on lots of recordings. It was my thought based on his original post that he WASN'T going for that sound and couldn't figure out why it was happening. Further clarification from him has revealed that he did in fact use DIs from separate takes so that being the case, I'm not sure what the problem could be unless he posts something as you already mentioned

 

[guitarguru777]

I can post some clips tonight when I get home. Its driving me nuts cause i reallllllllyyyyy want to hear what the Low mids on the 5150 and the Crunch of the Mesa sound like together !!!

 

[Scottxx]

Guitarguru, test the Brainworx Shredspread demo. It is designed to get all guitars sounding good. It is one of the best brands in audio plugins.

 

[jimwilbourne]

I do this setup a lot:

Performance 1: 100L
Performance 1 (haas): 80R
Performance 2: 100R
Performance 2 (haas): 80L

is this a super bad idea?

 

[drew_drummer]

What do you mean (haas) ?? As in a different amp??

 

[jimwilbourne]

What do you mean (haas) ?? As in a different amp??

I push it back about 20ms to create a Haas effect and give the allusion of quad tracking with merely double tracking.
but I also sometimes make the haas tracks a different amp.

 

[grywolf627]

I push it back about 20ms to create a Haas effect and give the allusion of quad tracking with merely double tracking.
but I also sometimes make the haas tracks a different amp.

It's no different than sticking a delay pedal set for just a few milliseconds on a guitar to thicken it up a little. (a very 80's thing by the way ) However, just don't refer to it as quad tracking.

 

[jimwilbourne]

my question is,
being that I pan the delayed track 80% the opposite direction of the 100% panned track, is there a huge phase issue that I can encounter?
is it a bad idea. I do it because I figure it's a method that most aren't doing in order to help separate my sound from others.

 

[grywolf627]

my question is,
being that I pan the delayed track 80% the opposite direction of the 100% panned track, is there a huge phase issue that I can encounter?
is it a bad idea. I do it because I figure it's a method that most aren't doing in order to help separate my sound from others.

Depends. If you're concerned about mono compatibility...then it could very possibly lead to phase issues (but that's easily enough checked). Otherwise, you're just manually doing what pseudo-stereo effects do, for the most part, and what many have done for a long time. It comes down to the only real golden rule: if you like the way it sounds and it's not causing you any problems, then it's not really "wrong". **However, there's no substitute for the way properly executed quad tracking sounds.

 

[CatharsisStudios]

don't forget that your recording with a latency so if you reamped the first track at 5ms and then lined it up and then reamped it again, its gonna be 5ms out of phase or whatever just scoot it forward too
i used to have like the same problem