Could someone help me explain this better?

T

topsoul182

Member
Dec 18, 2009
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Im talking with a previous client and he was saying that his guitar tone sounded digital because i re amped it and his idea to get past that for next time is have a ton of cabs and mics and im trying to explain it to him that its not a good idea and re amping has nothing to do with the sound. i want to make sure i understand this right too

Hears the conversation so far

Me: i think your not happy with the guitar tones cuz im not the greatest with micing amps. I need you to tell me it still sounds like shit so i can make adjustments

Client: well there were some parts that just sonded digital cause of the reamping but i figured a way around it haha i can help with the micing too i know generally where to put it and stuff and from the documentary i learned that more mics is better and more cabs is better next time i want to do like 5 cabs at once

Me: with reamping there is nothing that will make it sound digital, most of the sickest guitar tones you hear are re amped. and the problem with more mics and cabs is phase and comb filtering, and then you actually end up losing frequencys instead of gaining them.

Client: alot of people i watch have a bunch of cabs and then mic the room or mic each cab that has different speakers so i don't think losing frequencies will be a big deal

Heres the last song they did with me
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1950013/Windows.mp3

The amp was a Marshall Jvm into an avatar cab with Vintage 30's micd with a 57
 
Just explain to him that you're right and he's wrong :) Because you are right.

Most likely, if he saw a video with a tons of cabs and mics set up, the artist/engineer were switching between different rigs for different tones, not using them all at once. If they WERE using them all at once, they probably spent a couple days setting up, minimizing phase cancellations, and trying different combinations of amps/cabs/mics. Tell your client that if he wants to pay for all the setup time you'll be happy to dick around with 5 cabs and 20 mics.
 
^What he said.

Spend ages setting all this shit up, playing around with it, realise it sounds like shit due to phase cancellations and then just reamp it through one decent amp and cab afterwards.
 
Have him read the re-amping guide here on the forum. ;)

And then SHOW him some of our mixes. If you need a hand with microphone technique hit me up. Ill help ya out!

Just listened to the track ....

Im an guessing the problem is his playing.

#1 hes not tight
#2 there is WAY TOO MUCH high end in that tone and almost no low mids
#3 the bass guitar has almost no low end which makes the guitars sound weak

Few words of advice:
#1 Search the forum for GoddamnGuitars "Recording metal bass" tutorial it will do LOADS for your guitar tone
#2 Back off on the gain on the amp a bit and give it a bit more low end when recording it.
#3 hit me up and I will get you some photos of a good mic technique for this kind of stuff, I also do re-amps if you are interested, see my sig. (shameless plug)
 
All I can say is good luck. Some people there is no getting through to them once they have an idea planted in their head.
 
Client "knowledge" is always a difficult hurdle b/c you need to smack him down w/o pissing him off since you still want his money. If you have the time next time give him a quick a/b of the cab live and the exact same thing reamped (just take a DI of him going into his amp and send it back through on a second amp track). Then switch arbitrarily back and forth and see if he can tell which is which.
 
I had a band with a massive problem with the way that I got a tone through a pod-farm type thing (just for tracking).

I got once chance to try and get a tone which they then hated.
It turned out that the sound wasn't the problem, they re-tracked the guitars for the whole EP. The sound which I got back (a POD) was REALLY close to what I had for them in the first place.


Sometimes the issue isn't with you.. ! :)
 
thanks guys, he is stubborn and has been since day one, but they keep coming back to me so i must be doing something right. If i remember right the mic was right at the edge of the dust cap (which explains the insane high end.)

guitarguru777 said:
Have him read the re-amping guide here on the forum. ;)

And then SHOW him some of our mixes. If you need a hand with microphone technique hit me up. Ill help ya out!

Few words of advice:
#1 Search the forum for GoddamnGuitars "Recording metal bass" tutorial it will do LOADS for your guitar tone
#2 Back off on the gain on the amp a bit and give it a bit more low end when recording it.
#3 hit me up and I will get you some photos of a good mic technique for this kind of stuff, I also do re-amps if you are interested, see my sig. (shameless plug)
Click to expand...

#1- Check!
#3- Id love to see what kind of mic techniques you use cuz im not too familiar with micing amps. Most bands i record have line 6 combos so i just resort to using Lecto or nick crows 8505
 
It that guitar on the left clipping a little bit? Maybe that's what he's hearing. I'm not hearing much bass. Bad bas tone = bad guitar tone. Good luck brother, this doesn't sound like a very fun situation at all.
 
That lightning around the cabs looks...well...porn haha
nice vid jason!

OP:
+ 1 to making a stronger bass

I don't hear anything digital...but getting a solid sound with that playing should be a hard job^^
 
A little secret for recording a tight guitar part that I like to break out on occasion, is very dirty. But I'll share.

1. "Jam" with guitarist to learn his guitar parts. Use words like, "oh that's cool, how'd you do that?"
2. get client to leave gear at studio to "Acclimate to temperature"
3. record his parts YOURSELF.
4. say he did it, and credit yourself as a "guitar technician" in credits.

I know it's bad, But sometimes if you're gonna do it right....
 
Thank you so much for the video. Pictures always help me out better than words. I don't own a decent amp (the marshall was his) but next time i get a good amp in i will make sure to try out 57 right at the edge of the dustcap.

but for the time being heres a quick mix i did with lecto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1950013/windows2 - Output - shell.mp3

i think im gonna tell him i just re eq'd the re amp and see what he says.
 
AudioPhile777 said:
Listening to that song in the OP, the guitar tone is the LEAST of his worries... Please tell me I'm not the only one who hears those shit female vocals... fuck, I'm not even sure if those are female vocals...
Click to expand...

Oh lawd I just got halfway through the song and I'm hearing this too.
Regardless of whether it's male or female, I'd be pretty embarrassed to have my name on album (regardless of the role, musician, producer, mixer or whatever) with vocals like that.
I just cringed when I heard those vocals, I just can't understand why they are in the (admittedly not even a well written) song.
 
topsoul182 said:
Thank you so much for the video. Pictures always help me out better than words. I don't own a decent amp (the marshall was his) but next time i get a good amp in i will make sure to try out 57 right at the edge of the dustcap.

but for the time being heres a quick mix i did with lecto
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1950013/windows2 - Output - shell.mp3

i think im gonna tell him i just re eq'd the re amp and see what he says.
Click to expand...

It's pretty low-heavy, Yah meen? Hey, if you can crank your monitors, why not just mic them up? Might put a stopper to that "Too digital" nonsense.
 
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