Question about treatment of multiple vocal tracks

[JayB]

I'm wondering about what you guys like to do as far as vocal tracks. In something I'm recording now, I recorded 4 takes of scream vocals. I figured I could comp them to get the best up front take and use the others as thickener, lower in volume. My question is how much lower would you make the other tracks, in comparison to the main up front vocal? Like-6 , -10 db? I have them Vocaligned so it all sounds like one voice. What about panning? Should they all be in the center unless for a chorus or something?

As for Cleans, I was planning on doing the same, recording 4 takes. I remember Ermz saying he did this on the Naberus ep, and I love how the cleans sound on there. He didn't really elaborate, though, as far as what kind of panning and treatment each vocal would get. Should I be using different compressors, EQ etc for each clean vocal track? Should I be using split harmonizers at all if I have more than one take? What about for screams, should each scream track have the same kind of compression , or should the backups be EQd and compressed in a different way? And what kind of gain reduction should I be using on the main bus they're being sent to? I currently have about 3 db GR there.

Thanks in advance for any help guys!

 

[Skinny Viking]

if its just to thicken up the main lead vocal keep the panning the same ...

-6 db from the main is a good starting point

 

[JayB]

if its just to thicken up the main lead vocal keep the panning the same ...

-6 db from the main is a good starting point

What about for 3 extra tracks though? Should they be brought down more, or all kept around -6? Since the three tracks combined would equal a greater volume obviously than just 1 extra take at -6

 

[mva801]

There's really no right answer for this. Some bands sound great with doubled or tripled vocals, others want less of it. If you have 4 takes, what I would do is have one main panned center. Then a double, panned center, maybe 6-12 dB lower, depending on how you like it. I generally eq and compress these about the same. Then I'd take your other two and experiment with panning them to either side (40-40 or 60-60 or something - experiment) and only add those in when you want a little emphasis on certain parts. I don't think there's any reason to have 4 of the same vocal part layered together panned center. While tracking, I would start paying attention to how you want to layer things, and maybe having the singer try for a slightly different tone (higher or lower scream) for the emphasis parts.

For cleans, I usually do about the same thing, but the other two parts split wider will generally be harmonies, not duplicates of the original. More than two of the same part together with cleans can be a bit too much.

As always, use your ears and just fuck with it a bunch til you think it's rad.

 

[JayB]

There's really no right answer for this. Some bands sound great with doubled or tripled vocals, others want less of it. If you have 4 takes, what I would do is have one main panned center. Then a double, panned center, maybe 6-12 dB lower, depending on how you like it. I generally eq and compress these about the same. Then I'd take your other two and experiment with panning them to either side (40-40 or 60-60 or something - experiment) and only add those in when you want a little emphasis on certain parts. I don't think there's any reason to have 4 of the same vocal part layered together panned center. While tracking, I would start paying attention to how you want to layer things, and maybe having the singer try for a slightly different tone (higher or lower scream) for the emphasis parts.

For cleans, I usually do about the same thing, but the other two parts split wider will generally be harmonies, not duplicates of the original. More than two of the same part together with cleans can be a bit too much.

As always, use your ears and just fuck with it a bunch til you think it's rad.

Cool, thanks for the tips man.

 

[Manicompression]

I would also add that just because you have 4 takes doesnt mean you need to use them all in the end.

 

[JayB]

I would also add that just because you have 4 takes doesnt mean you need to use them all in the end.

Good point. Maybe I'll go with just 2 or 3

 

[Uros]

there is no 'the right answer' to this sort of thing really...this is a taste thing, and taste is what differentiates one mix engineer from another, so it's really whatever sounds good to whoever is mixing it. Skinny said -6dB as a starting point since it's half the volume of the main vocal, but try whatever you can think off, you might actually learn something that way

 

[StefTD]

I do it the same way as mva801, I recorded vocals to a song yesterday for example (from HollowmanPL here, it's
clipping because I just put vocals on top of the mp3) 4 tracks of growls and screams:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73276802/vocaltest.mp3

I grouped the 4 vocal tracks, main vocalline is double tracked, one at -6db, the other at -12db, both panned center,
the two backing tracks are at -9db and panned 50% to both sides. Due to being grouped together they all use the
same fx, but I put an eq and some distortion on the two backing tracks, actually a high pass at about 400hz and a
low pass at 8khz, distortion is actually a tube screamer sim mixed in about 30%, it made them sit in the "mix" way
better.

 

[JayB]

I do it the same way as mva801, I recorded vocals to a song yesterday for example (from HollowmanPL here, it's
clipping because I just put vocals on top of the mp3) 4 tracks of growls and screams:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73276802/vocaltest.mp3

I grouped the 4 vocal tracks, main vocalline is double tracked, one at -6db, the other at -12db, both panned center,
the two backing tracks are at -9db and panned 50% to both sides. Due to being grouped together they all use the
same fx, but I put an eq and some distortion on the two backing tracks, actually a high pass at about 400hz and a
low pass at 8khz, distortion is actually a tube screamer sim mixed in about 30%, it made them sit in the "mix" way
better.

Cool , thanks for the ideas!

 

[Charles J]

there is no 'right' answer to this. seems everyone who posted does it a bit differently and I have to say, I do it much differently.

I produce/commit/decide how many layers/what type of layers, sonically/tone/noises/etc, whats going to live in the C, what's going so sit far L + R and on top of THAT what fits in what part of the song and SERVES THE SONG the best. I like doing a lot of vocal layers for certain parts and will almost CERTAINLY always at least have 2 tracks of vox panned center (a basic double) at the very least.

more C layers come in and out as well as L + R (which I always make 2 sets of) so i'll have VOX L1 + VOX R1 and VOX L2 + VOX R2.

these stereo pairs might not always have content on them at the SAME time, but i find when i really wanna make the vocal HUGE i'll do 2 C VOX, and fill both stereo sides with two sets of different types of screams.

yeah, it gets elaborate.... haha.

 

[JayB]

there is no 'right' answer to this. seems everyone who posted does it a bit differently and I have to say, I do it much differently.

I produce/commit/decide how many layers/what type of layers, sonically/tone/noises/etc, whats going to live in the C, what's going so sit far L + R and on top of THAT what fits in what part of the song and SERVES THE SONG the best. I like doing a lot of vocal layers for certain parts and will almost CERTAINLY always at least have 2 tracks of vox panned center (a basic double) at the very least.

more C layers come in and out as well as L + R (which I always make 2 sets of) so i'll have VOX L1 + VOX R1 and VOX L2 + VOX R2.

these stereo pairs might not always have content on them at the SAME time, but i find when i really wanna make the vocal HUGE i'll do 2 C VOX, and fill both stereo sides with two sets of different types of screams.

yeah, it gets elaborate.... haha.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I was planning on doing. Thanks for the tips!

 

[Machinated]

go with your gut and whatever feels right when you are mixing.

sometimes i go with a main C track and some underneath, sometimes ill pan a little. depends on so much, there is no right answer.

also sometimes its cool to use doubling up and panning etc to grab attention.

 

[jENK]

There's no rules, use your ears! Personally, I think more than 3 tracks is overkill unless its a gang vocal thing or something. I like to automate the double-track up and down during the song to create dynamics in the vocal. If the vocal performance is strong and it's a tight double-track, you can almost run the double at equal volume. On average I have mine between -3db and -6db.