Question to Chickinson (Metallica related)

If you think Pantera's "Far Beyond Driven" sucks you are honestly either deaf or a moron. That is one of the greatest albums I have ever heard. They progessed big time on that album. Vulgar Display or Power is a great album but not their best. That is just such a popular album because of the "hits" on it. I will go on to say that "The Great Southern Trendkill" is also fuckin brilliant and BRUTAL.

Pantera is the best Metal band of the 90's and I would challenge anyone to tell me differently


Reinventing the steel is not their best but its stuff very enjoyable despite the poor production. There is some excellent material on it. I can tell you it is still produced 100 times better than Metallicas latest record and its 100 times heavier.
 
Vulgar Display of Power is the album that set the tone for all other Pantera albums that followed it. Never mind that it is the album with all their "hits." This album has so many "hits" because this is the band at it's peak. Far Beyond Driven did much better sales figures on it's release (remember, it debuted at #1) but this still didn't change the fact that their songwriting hadn't progressed. It's still the same recycled rhythms, riffs and beats and was the start of the decline of Pantera. Great Southern Trendkill just put their decline at a steeper angle to hasten it. Reinventing The Steel just closed and nailed shut the lid of the coffin on what looked to be a promising career.

Best Metal Band of the 90's is also subjective. They certainly weren't the best in performance with Phil's drug use being displayed. This helped mar several shows that I have seen of the band (i.e. Ozzfest 2001 at San Bernadino. I walked out on that show thanks to Phil's shitty performance) and was probably one of the reasons why Dimebag is rumored to hold so much resentment towards Phil now. I also got to witness them being blown off the stage by at least two of their opening acts (specifically, Sepultura and Slayer).
 
Say what you want. Far Beyond Driven is the best Pantera album there is. This would tell me that you were never really into Pantera just a half assed fan that got into them when you heard "This love" on the radio.

Go to the Pantera message board. Far Beyond Driven is the higest rated Pantera CD. They progressed big time on that record. Almost every song on that CD is brilliant. Slaughtered is one of the heaviest Pantera songs ever written. 5 Minutes alone, Im Broken, Shredding Skin, the list goes on and on.

I would strongly suggest putting that CD in AGAIN and crank is loud, it will kick your fuckin ass.

And The Great Southern Trendkill is also a brilliant record. Suicide Note Part 1 is one of the greatest Acoustic songs I have ever heard. Phil was his best on this record. His lyrics on this album are deep and his melodies shine on this record. You are on crack if you think this record sucks.

But any how i am not here to force my opinion on anyone I just have a very strong opinion myself and like to express it.
 
PS.

That ozzfest show was in the year 2001 I belive, and yes Phil was heavily on Herioin which between that and all the other drugs he was on it ruined his voice big time.
Its a shame that he got involved in those hard drugs. Phil could have been one of the greatest front men in history, I still think he is/was just not anymore.
 
First of all, I've been listening to Pantera long before they ever released This Love as a single (1990, if you must ask). I have my opinions on Pantera's material which doesn't mean that I'm wrong in feeling that way. I feel the same way about Reinventing The Steel and Great Southern Trendkill that I feel about Dance of Death. Great sounding record production; terrible songwriting. They're all suffering from recycled riffs and a complete lack of creativity. I don't care what their highest rated CDs are. Black Sabbath's highest rated CDs according to the members of their fan club are Tyr and Headless Cross. Do they hold a candle to Master of Reality? There's a reason for the expression, "The masses are asses." I don't care what people think of different records. It doesn't lead me to buy albums.

"His melodies shine..." What melodies? Phil Anselmo's got the range of a Daisy air rifle. That's like saying Tom Araya has vocal melodies. Have you ever looked at one of the melody lines for Pantera or Slayer on written sheet music? It's about 3 notes. It's closer to Rap. I'll look to Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Rob Halford, Diamanda Galas, Björk, Neil Diamond, Mozart, Beethoven and other for examples of shining melody lines.

Also, if Phil was doing heroin at any time after 1997, then he's a fuckin' moron that never learned from experience after he was pronounced clinically DEAD and had to be revived during the co-headlining tour that Pantera did with White Zombie. Perhaps he did more brain damage than he realized.
 
I have just one more thing to say, then I am going to quit kicking this dead damn horse. I see St. Anger posts like this all over the place. They usually start off with an honest opinion, only to explode in a matter of minutes into a big ball of shit. For some reason I am compelled to enter into these pointless debates that end up (not on my part, mind you) being an immature name calling contest that no one can win, and they have even come to personal insults and blows. We all have different opinions, and that is fine, lets discuss them, but we should be able to do so in a mature manner. Thank you...
 
There are so many bands from the 90's who are just as good and "brutal". In some cases they were better than Pantera. Slayer, Sepultura, Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse.....etc.

Its all good. People like what they like. I understand what its like when you are a young dude, and you have to be cool by insisting that bands who "sell out" aren't "true" to their art. Or better yet, "I am gonna be cool because I won't listen to what is actually good, I am gonna like something off the wall for the sake of being different and proving I am cooler than anyone else." hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good luck in life, man. You are gonna need it!

oh and by the way, one could ask if I, the Dave Mustaine character of a Megadeth Tribute, argue with Bill, the James Hetfield in Creeping Death, about which band is truly better. You know what.........I would rather sit with Bill, have a beer and bullshit about the music industry and the good/bad relationships we have around us. Go figure...NORMAL conversation.

:rock:
 
Bottom line here, MEtallica were gods of metal. They 'evolved' 'changed' 'matured' or in my words "SOLD OUT" when the black album came out. What ever you want to call it they changed their music in 1990 to somthing that is not evem similar to all of their amazing albums pre Black album. Pantera got heavier and heavier and never ever went the mainstream rock route that Metallica went down, and trust me they could have easily. "This Love" was a number one single, all they would have had to do is make an entire album like that song and they would have been GIANTS. But they didn't instead they come back and write a heavier album and told the mainstream mtv audience (The same one that Metallica was profiting from) to Fuck off.

SOme people I honestly think are deaf, If you can honestly listen to anything after 1990 that MEtallica has done and tell me it "Kicks ass" or is "Amazing" you are lying to yourself.
 
ironmaidenfan09 said:
"This Love" was a number one single, all they would have had to do is make an entire album like that song and they would have been GIANTS.
Click to expand...
On what chart did this song reach #1 and can you prove that?

Also, if they had made an album the way you're saying, they'd be dead in the water with that album because of the number of returned CDs and would be labeled as being a "one trick pony."
 
Maybe you don't remember "Far Beyond Driven" Debued NUMBER 1 on the Billboard Charts either. Go look it up. Have a nice day.

"This Love" was the number 1 most requested video on mtv for several weeks as well as number 1 on billboard rock charts
 
Far Beyond Driven debuted at #1 on Billboard's Top 200 Record Sales charts and then quickly sank in position. Their #1 spot that week was why they got the cover of Rolling Stone the following month. Pay attention! I said, "On what chart did this song reach #1 and can you prove that?" I was talking about This Love. Reread my previous post until you get it right.

This Love cannot be found on any singles charts other than MTV's "Request" chart (and knowing how MTV operates, it was probably Atco/EastWest that was forcing the request numbers so that the video would be in rotation on MTV. It's a common record company tactic so they can push their artists and is worked into the promotional budget for a record). I searched the web and couldn't find anything regarding that single (This Love) ever reaching ANY position on ANY chart anywhere.

Face it, Pantera's not all that and a bag of chips. :loco:

By the way, it IS possible for a band to mature, change or evolve and still have great songwriting. To me, selling out would be just going through the motions and to continue releasing the same album over and over again with a new cover, a la AC/DC, Motorhead and Pantera. Metallica gets credit in my book for at least TRYING to improve and change their sound even though their songwriting on the last two studio albums sucks whale cock.
 
Back around 1986... I used to frequent this club in Houston that went by the name of Cardies. Cardies was legendary... what was happening on the Sunset Strip (LA) was happening there too. I was young, dumb and full of (fill in the blank). Every week there would be a different band that would play Wed - Sun... 4 sets a night. There were three bands that ruled at this club, on a regular basis. One of those bands was Pantera.

All of my metal-snob friends made fun of them... even tho the band was technically incredible. They played 3 sets of Metallica, Anthrax, Priest, Maiden, etc... and 1 set of originals. At this point they had all ready released 3 (or 4) records on their own and ruled the entire Southern US Cover circuit. The were barely in their early 20's.

I moved to LA and lost track of them. One day I'm sitting on my coach in my underoos watching Headbangers Ball... and then Cemetery Gates comes on. My jaw hit the floor.

Pantera had a 10-year history before they ever got signed. Throughout the 90's they toured and recorded non-stop. They defied all the odds. In my opinion they were one of the very few metal bands to survive and help keep metal alive... on a major label level.

I respect what they've accomplished. And there is no denying that they are all great musicians. The last time I saw them play was the Ozzfest on the "Reinventing Tour"... and they tore that place apart. It's sad to see them split up like this... but at least they left on a high note.

It's really easy to sit here and criticize Pantera and Metallica... but I seriously doubt any of us here on this thread will ever come remotely close to accomplishing what they have as a band. Seriously...
 
To me, selling out would be just going through the motions and to continue releasing the same album over and over again with a new cover, a la AC/DC, Motorhead and Pantera

That statement right there says a lot about you. I am surpised you didn't include Iron Maiden in this list of bands that Sold Out. Iron Maiden is another band that still sounds the same as they did when they first came out. Why are you here again?

And by the way I can really give two fucks what record chart Pantera was on. I never listen to the radio. I don't give a fuck if they never were on any album chart, I do know that all of their records have gone Platinum or Gold and they have had almost 0 radio play. After Vulgar Display or Power they got minimum radio play and 0 play on MTV.

I would love to see Metallica play on the same stage as Pantera, Pantera would blow them the fuck away.

Pantera fans are real die hard fans of Metal music. Metallica fans are fucking the same fans that listen to Creed and all those pussy ass rock bands out today.

If you aren't into Pantera that is fine but to tell me they suck or only had 1 good album you are seriously a fucking retard and know absolutely nothing about Metal music.

To quote Scott Ian from Anthrax

"Pantera were definetely the best heavy metal band of the 1990's and one of the only bands besides Slayer that I will still go to the shows and go nuts for"
 
Ok ok ok...let's watch the name-calling please and overuse of the word "retard." There are parents of special needs children on this board that take offense to that. Let's try to keep this in a music discussion about the music and how it has evolved and not throwing out personal insults because we disagree.

This is suposed to be a fun music forum...right? If this gets any uglier, we have to take down the whole post and we don't like doing that.
 
ironmaidenfan09 said:
If you think Pantera's "Far Beyond Driven" sucks you are honestly either deaf or a moron.
Click to expand...
Keep the attitude outside. We can have a lively discussion without having to resort to the childish practice of name-calling when you can't put forth a good argument.
Any more like this and not only will the post be closed... it'll be deleted and Mark, the admin, will be notified.
 
Did I forget to mention Iron Maiden? Oops! Sorry for the oversight. :grin:

Pantera had more than one good album. They had two. And anything before Cowboys and everything after Vulgar sucked, in my opinion. :Smug:

And Pantera has shared the stage with Metallica. It was in Russia in 1991 for the Monsters of Rock Festival (or whatever it was called) there. Hell, even Phil has said that he likes "the Black album"

Metallica fans are fucking Creed fans? Well, at least they're getting laid. :p Who are Pantera fans fucking? Slipknot fans? :confused:

To quote Peter Steele of Type O Negative: "All bands suck. Some just get paid better."

And as to the evolution of Pantera, I've got this to say: Metal Magic, Projects in the Jungle, I Am the Night, and Power Metal. Need I say more? Or how about this? :grin:

power18.jpg
 
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