R.I.P. Bolt Thrower
- Thread starter Shpongled
- Start date
Dead Winter
STAHP
- Aug 30, 2001
- 13,483
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Do you call a pizza a cheeseburger too?
Also, what does a time signature have to do with anything?
EricT
Don't you ever get...
How Bolt Thrower can be classified in the same realm as Napalm Death, Extreme Noise Terror, Defecation, and the like is just confusing to me... Where the hell are Hardcore Punk influenced riffs in Bolt thrower?
Dead Winter
STAHP
Welp, it's like this. Back in the day, we had just a couple of bands like Napalm Death, and Bolt Thrower was one of them. Back then we didn't have extreme grind bands like we do today; Napalm Death was about the fastest thing around. Nowadays you can take yer pick with grind bands.
Bolt Thrower plays mainly 4/4 chugga chugga riffs and yes, by todays standards it wouldn't be considered grind. But back then, grind didn't really exist...it just kinda evolved into what it is today. Therefore, I consider BT to be one of those bands. I wouldn't classify them as a "pure" grind band, but they definitely had a hand in the genre.
I don't expect some of you to understand because you were either NOT BORN YET or were in kindergarten.
I mean, look back at Death. Were they REALLY death metal, as per today's standards? Not really. I remember when Slayer and Nuclear Assault were the fastest thrash around and it blew our minds...now even my drummer plays faster than that.
Where are the hardcore punk riffs? Dude, hardcore was all about the 4/4 time signature downpicking, man!
It's not like I don't know what grind is, I just consider a band who had a hand in the genre's formative years deserving of a little recognition. And anyone who wasn't around when the denim jacket with patches was in style THE FIRST TIME should keep their mouths shut. ESPECIALLY people who listened to just one song TODAY and made an assumption on what grind was 20 years ago...when it WASN'T EVEN CALLED GRIND. We didn't even know what it was...it was just the most brutal metal we had ever heard. If I heard a song from Bolt Thrower for the first time today and didn't know them in the beginning, I wouldn't consider them grind either...but that would be MY ignorance, not someone who was there when some of you were still in elementary school.
Bolt Thrower plays mainly 4/4 chugga chugga riffs and yes, by todays standards it wouldn't be considered grind. But back then, grind didn't really exist...it just kinda evolved into what it is today. Therefore, I consider BT to be one of those bands. I wouldn't classify them as a "pure" grind band, but they definitely had a hand in the genre.
I don't expect some of you to understand because you were either NOT BORN YET or were in kindergarten.
I mean, look back at Death. Were they REALLY death metal, as per today's standards? Not really. I remember when Slayer and Nuclear Assault were the fastest thrash around and it blew our minds...now even my drummer plays faster than that.
Where are the hardcore punk riffs? Dude, hardcore was all about the 4/4 time signature downpicking, man!
It's not like I don't know what grind is, I just consider a band who had a hand in the genre's formative years deserving of a little recognition. And anyone who wasn't around when the denim jacket with patches was in style THE FIRST TIME should keep their mouths shut. ESPECIALLY people who listened to just one song TODAY and made an assumption on what grind was 20 years ago...when it WASN'T EVEN CALLED GRIND. We didn't even know what it was...it was just the most brutal metal we had ever heard. If I heard a song from Bolt Thrower for the first time today and didn't know them in the beginning, I wouldn't consider them grind either...but that would be MY ignorance, not someone who was there when some of you were still in elementary school.
Will Bozarth
Everlasting Godstopper
saying age has stuff to do with it just doesn't seem fair. we can go back and look release dates and go chronologically. I go by what stuff sounds like. Napalm Death? Sure, I'd classify them as grindy. They sure as hell don't sound anything like Bolt Thrower, though. We could say that Jaws is a suspense movie, but it's actually a horror movie. You look at what is put into it and what it feels like. Bolt Thrower feels like death metal, and Jaws feels like a horror movie. Just as everyone who was deathly afraid of going in the ocean after that movie was released.
We can say that Michael Jackson is black, but he isn't.
We can say that Michael Jackson is black, but he isn't.
Will Bozarth
Everlasting Godstopper
EricT
Don't you ever get...
Yeah, because age obviously determines how much I know...
I do know that yeah, the early demo recordings were a blend between more Hardcorish and Crust Punky riffs, but they had left that behind for a more Traditional Death Metal aspect when they began to get serious about it.
The only reason any post material would be considered grind in anyway is because of their early associations with Vinyl Solutions, and then after which going to Earache, who at the time were specializing in promoting bands in Napalm Death's and Carcass's deathgrind style, followed by featuring them on a compilation entitled "Grind Crusher". Of course, only a few bands on this were actually grind (Entombed, Carnage, Morbid Angel, and Godflesh are also on this comp). It took 2 CD's, but eventually everyone figured out that the band had left their grindish/hardcorish/crust aspects behind in the demos, and shouldn't be classified by label associations.
Edit: That all said still, I should reinterpret my initial post in this thread: "The only time I've heard them coined as grind in reference to anything but the demo material and label association, was this thread. It was heavily clarified early in their professional career, both by them and their music, that label associations mean nothing and they lay heavily in the classic death metal genre."
I do know that yeah, the early demo recordings were a blend between more Hardcorish and Crust Punky riffs, but they had left that behind for a more Traditional Death Metal aspect when they began to get serious about it.
The only reason any post material would be considered grind in anyway is because of their early associations with Vinyl Solutions, and then after which going to Earache, who at the time were specializing in promoting bands in Napalm Death's and Carcass's deathgrind style, followed by featuring them on a compilation entitled "Grind Crusher". Of course, only a few bands on this were actually grind (Entombed, Carnage, Morbid Angel, and Godflesh are also on this comp). It took 2 CD's, but eventually everyone figured out that the band had left their grindish/hardcorish/crust aspects behind in the demos, and shouldn't be classified by label associations.
Edit: That all said still, I should reinterpret my initial post in this thread: "The only time I've heard them coined as grind in reference to anything but the demo material and label association, was this thread. It was heavily clarified early in their professional career, both by them and their music, that label associations mean nothing and they lay heavily in the classic death metal genre."
derek
Grey Eminence
Dead Winter
STAHP
No no no no no....I'm not saying that. You're probably one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum when it comes to metal...moreso than I.
I'm just saying that just because 20 years ago a band of a particular genre (fuck...this is fucking stupid, but oh well) isn't of the same caliber as bands of the genre now doesn't mean they aren't deserving of the recognition.
Bands get better. Abilities get better. Music changes.
EricT
Don't you ever get...
Dead Winter
STAHP
Precisely, as was Napalm Death.
I remember the first time I heard Bolt Thrower and Napalm Death...it was in the parking lot at my school...my friend had a tape of it in his car and said, "Dude, check this shit out...is this not the heaviest thing you have ever heard?" And it truly was. Until then, I had never heard metal played so extremely. I was listening to shit like DRI and Metallica...and then along came death metal. For us, Cannibal Corpse, Napalm Death, and Bolt Thrower were just death metal...we didn't even know how to classify it. No one had ever heard of grindcore then...the genres weren't so anally retentive then. You had death metal, thrash metal, heavy metal, and black metal was just starting to rear it's beautifully ugly head as well. I think this was very early 90s.
Dead Winter
STAHP
Dead Winter
STAHP
But I do believe age plays a factor in the experience of music. It doesn't necessarily make someone's opinion better or anything like that, but it changes.
For example, I LOVE CCR. Always have and always will...I grew up with their music. But my experience would PALE in comparison with someone who saw them at Woodstock, or, like my parents, remember when they were popular on the radio and played concerts around when they were young.
Other examples: The Beatles. Elvis. Could ANY of us for even one second imagine what that time was like if we weren't there? Never. No matter how much you may adore a band from the past, unless you lived during their popularity (or obscurity for that matter) and were able to experience that first hand as they were on the rise, I don't think one can really understand how powerful music really is. I mean, The Beatles changed HISTORY. FOREVER. Imagine seeing Pink Floyd now versus seeing them during Dark Side or even Saucerful of Secrets tours, when they were a little obscure. Imagine being able to see Syd Barrett live. Imagine seeing GENESIS live when Peter Gabriel came out looking like some psycho with a bad haircut dressed up as a flower. No amount of internet downloads, DVDs, VH1 Behind the Music bullshit or bootlegs will ever live up to that.
For example, I LOVE CCR. Always have and always will...I grew up with their music. But my experience would PALE in comparison with someone who saw them at Woodstock, or, like my parents, remember when they were popular on the radio and played concerts around when they were young.
Other examples: The Beatles. Elvis. Could ANY of us for even one second imagine what that time was like if we weren't there? Never. No matter how much you may adore a band from the past, unless you lived during their popularity (or obscurity for that matter) and were able to experience that first hand as they were on the rise, I don't think one can really understand how powerful music really is. I mean, The Beatles changed HISTORY. FOREVER. Imagine seeing Pink Floyd now versus seeing them during Dark Side or even Saucerful of Secrets tours, when they were a little obscure. Imagine being able to see Syd Barrett live. Imagine seeing GENESIS live when Peter Gabriel came out looking like some psycho with a bad haircut dressed up as a flower. No amount of internet downloads, DVDs, VH1 Behind the Music bullshit or bootlegs will ever live up to that.
derek
Grey Eminence
To counter that, music is there for eternity. The chance to involve yourself in it transcends simply seeing the artist.
Dead Winter
STAHP
Yes but there's no nostalgia. I remember when people were laughing at people who still had turntables...those people had no idea how awesome it was to be able to buy a record and put the needle on and listen to that warmth. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying there's something lacking. It's not a "you weren't there so you don't know" kind of thing...although that does play into it a little bit. Listening to a CCR record from the 60s IN the 60s and listening to them on CD now is a completely different thing altogether.
But this usually only applies to people deeply involved in music, whether playing or just listening. Joe Schmoe listening to whatever's on the radio doesn't really apply.
But this usually only applies to people deeply involved in music, whether playing or just listening. Joe Schmoe listening to whatever's on the radio doesn't really apply.
derek
Grey Eminence
WhiteBeastofWotan
Apostitutes!
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