Rapper LIL WAYNE samples STRATOVARIUS on new song

[zedowns]

A) I don't know what your definition of "talent" is, but it's a moot argument. To me, talent means being able to write a good song and has nothing whatsoever to do with technical proficiency.

This +435234523452345.

Give me a heavy sampled electronic album over some wank like Spiral Architect any day of the week.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

btw here's the Sneap blog I was referring to in case people want it: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=98266579&blogId=458001714

This +435234523452345.

Give me a heavy sampled electronic album over some wank like Spiral Architect any day of the week.

Heh, I actually really like Spiral Architect, but I do agree with your sentiment. There is nothing wrong with minimalism and restraint in music. I actually prefer it.

 

[adaher]

Will Smith actually has some really good stuff. The light-hearted stuff is what gets the radio air play but his album cuts tend to be a little more serious critiques of the rap industry.

And of course Stuck Mojo's lyrics are awesome.

 

[dcowboys311]

Are YOU kidding?? I had to stop the song after the first few lines because the lyrics were just the same drivel as 99% of the other rap I've heard. "I cut off your arm and tell you to reach. I cut out your tongue and tell you to pr----*click*". I'm sorry but lyrics about bangin' hoes, slappin'bitches, busting caps, and snortin' lines are not by and large better than power metal lyrics. Show me some thought-provoking rap songs, or at least ones that don't resort to violence or lewd sex and drugs, and then maybe you'll have a case. I really mean it, too. Please do show me. I'd actually be interested to hear a rap song (from the U.S.) that doesn't mention drugs, sex, violence, or demean women, and is still considered a "rap" song. I don't hate the style of music, but the content is way too explicit and ludicrous for me to enjoy it.

You do realize that saying all rap is about bitches and hos is like saying that all power metal is about unicorns and fairies right? There is plenty of rap out there that doesn't even touch the subject matter. I can't pull up examples right now because I'm at work, but if you're interested look up Blackstar to start off.

 

[dcowboys311]

Tricky has some good lyrics. I really like his solo stuff (and LOVE Massive Attack, his original band...).

But overall I agree, not a fan of hip hop lyrics...
I absolutely disagree with everyone who says there is no talent in sampling and/or rapping...
Just listen to Dj Shadow.. Some brilliant sampling.. and I mean INCREDIBLE music.

If people want good examples of sampling, look no further than Girl Talk.

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

You do realize that saying all rap is about bitches and hos is like saying that all power metal is about unicorns and fairies right?

Power metal without dragons and swords??? Surely you jest!!! I'll believe that the day I see Oscar from Hammerfall NOT wearing 45 pounds of chains and studs!

 

[KaptainKrude]

If people want good examples of sampling, look no further than Girl Talk.

+1

 

[edgeofthorns]

I don't see why he'd be kidding, there's more to music than how proficiently you can play your instrument.

I never said anything about technical prowess. The Beastie Boys contacted Malcolm Young one time to ask permission to use "You Shook Me All Night Long". He turned their offer down flat, because he felt like they should make their own damn song. My point being, it doesn't take that much talent to overdub lyrics using an artist's song if you're a halfway decent lyricist.

~Brian~

 

[AeonicSlumber]

It's ironic because the Beastie Boys put out more unique/original albums than AC/DC who just rehashes the same album over and over again. They are one of the most influential/important rap groups of all time and are incredibly talented.

There's more to talent than just being able to play instruments. Art comes in all forms and making a point to shut out an entire form of art in your mind for whatever sentimental reasons is just sad.

 

[Narissa]

i think sampling is ok if an artist is paying homage to someone.somehow i dont think that is the case. id be curious to know how he came across that anyway.

 

[Wizards]

Just watch, next song from stato for Lil Wayne to copy is going to be Black Diamond

 

[TheGraveDigger]

Lil Wayne has a "rock" oriented album coming out sometime this year called "Rebirth". It has been pushed back several times, first because it was going to coincide with Eminem's new album and Wayne knew he didn't stand a chance going up against him. Then he started feeling a certain type of way about his album and started re-doing stuff. It will be interesting to see if this song gets an official release. Wayne is known as being a mix tape artist which basically means before he puts his major label albums out in stores he records albums for the streets and gives music away for free. I too am curious how he came across Strato and if Strato has any idea about this. Wayne over the past two years has been seen in many magazines wearing several different Iron Maiden shirts. While metal/rock shirts are trendy now adays, who knows, maybe hes a fan?

 

[adaher]

Well, it's not just rock-oriented, it is rock. And while it's awesome that Lil Wayne wants to do a rock album, his vocals are hideous. The Autotune actually makes him sound worse.

lil Wayne's attempts to headline Progpower appear to have failed.

 

[sh0kr0k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1u43KDiWD0

That was terrific! I truly enjoyed that, and thanks for posting it! I knew there would have to be something out there.

What's the point in making generalizations over stuff you know nothing about? I don't get it... honestly. I'm not trying to be offensive here, it's a sincere question.

I don't claim to know a lot about rap music, but it's also not a difficult study. I simply summarized my experience with the genre. The very fact that I asked for something with alternate content shows that I'm aware such music exists, whether I over-generalized or not.

You do realize that saying all rap is about bitches and hos is like saying that all power metal is about unicorns and fairies right?

You do realize that I made sure to put "99% of the rap that I've heard" just so someone wouldn't feel compelled to say that. Guess it didn't work. At least you gave me an artist to consider. Thanks. I'll look them up in the morning. Throw more my way when you can.

 

[General Zod]

A) I don't know what your definition of "talent" is, but it's a moot argument. To me, talent means being able to write a good song and has nothing whatsoever to do with technical proficiency.

It's amazing anyone feels being able to play music proficiently shouldn't be a requirement for a career in music.

B) If anything, there are hip hop guys that can outplay most metal guys.

For your first point, you stated that there's absolutely no correlation between talent and technical proficiency. For your second point you extoled the virtues of technical proficiency? Regardless, is your point that the average Hip Hop band features a higher calibre of musicianship than the average Metal band or that there are a few talented players in the Hip Hop world?

C) Most modern metal CDs (I'd say 95%) feature fake drums (look up "sound replacing"), autotuned vocals so that the singer sings in key (unless it's extreme vocal styles) and massive amounts of editing so that it sounds like a robot is playing everything.

When you say "modern metal", are you referring to bands like Disturbed and Godsmack or are you referring to the bands typically discussed on this forum? If the latter, I'd love to know where you pulled that 95% statistic from.

Most rappers also don't rap about bitches and hos and busting caps. The mainstream ones do, but summing up all rap with 50 Cent etc would be like some outsider summing up all metal with Korn or Suicide Silence or whatever is hot with the kids at the time.

A fair point. Feel free to recommend a few lesser known artists. I'm always interested in checking something new out.

Cheers...

Zod

 

[AeonicSlumber]

It's amazing anyone feels being able to play music proficiently shouldn't be a requirement for a career in music.

Hm I don't get what this has to do with anything but this in it of itself could be a separate thread. With that stated, you misread my post. I didn't mention anything about having a career in music, I explicitly was referring to the perception of "talent."

For your first point, you stated that there's absolutely no correlation between talent and technical proficiency. For your second point you extoled the virtues of technical proficiency? Regardless, is your point that the average Hip Hop band features a higher calibre of musicianship than the average Metal band or that there are a few talented players in the Hip Hop world?

You're making irrelevant judgments as a function of misinterpreting my post. I never said that there's no correlation between talent and technical proficiency. What I said, or rather, implied, was that the definition of "talent" is something as subjective as the definition of "good" or "evil." It's so pointlessly dogmatic to hand so heavy a judgment that some artist isn't "talented" because he doesn't wank all over the place. But at least anyway, that's my opinion.

My comment about The Roots started with the phrase "if anything." Meaning that if I were to agree that mastery of an instrument yields musical talent, there are indeed hip hop musicians that could outplay most metal musicians. Most metal bands could never play the stuff that The Roots guys have to play on Jimmy Fallon's show for example. They only know how to play metal. Now, to me, this has no bearing on their musical abilities but just their technical abilities. Just because the Wolves In The Throne Room guys only can play metal doesn't mean I don't think they are an excellent band.

When you say "modern metal", are you referring to bands like Disturbed and Godsmack or are you referring to the bands typically discussed on this forum? If the latter, I'd love to know where you pulled that 95% statistic from.

Disturbed and Godsmack, as well as the bands typically discussed in this forum. I'd rather not get into how I know this, but it should be quite obvious. If you neglected Andy Sneap's blog (you know, the guy who produced Nevermore, Megadeth, etc amongst others), that I cited (and subsequently linked), then you're only proving to me even more that you didn't properly read my posts.

What I will say is that I know many producers. Some of which aren't very well known, and others are. All of them can detect drum samples and overly edited music as well as auto tuned vocals when they hear it. Ask any metal producer, or one who is involved in metal production circles to know this. Bands come into the studio, track their instruments, and the producer edits everything and samples over live drums with robotic drumsounds. The result, is that modern metal production you get with pretty much all metal productions.

A fair point. Feel free to recommend a few lesser known artists. I'm always interested in checking something new out.

Cheers...

Zod

Aesop Rock would be a good start. He's actually pretty popular, but nowhere as popular as 50 Cent and the like. I'd say his popularity is akin to Dimmu Borgir's popularity in the metal scene. Cage is another great rapper, as well the Wu Tang Clan (first two albums really only, though). Immortal Technique is good to my ears as well, but he is very political and very radical. Proceed with an open mind. GZA's Liquid Swords album is mandatory hip hop, and Dr. Octagon's "Dr. Octagonecologyst" is great too. Jedi Mind Tricks- Servants In Heaven... Kings In Hell is also good, but be warned: some radical political opinions here as well. Mos Def's debut record is great... Atmosphere and Dan The Automator are also great... I could go on.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

That was terrific! I truly enjoyed that, and thanks for posting it! I knew there would have to be something out there.




I don't claim to know a lot about rap music, but it's also not a difficult study. I simply summarized my experience with the genre. The very fact that I asked for something with alternate content shows that I'm aware such music exists, whether I over-generalized or not.

I'm glad you liked it! The part of my post that you quoted in your second paragraph was directed at Pellaz.

 

[Pellaz]

Most metal bands could never play the stuff that The Roots guys have to play on Jimmy Fallon's show for example. They only know how to play metal.

Words fail.

Overgeneralize much?

Disturbed and Godsmack, as well as the bands typically discussed in this forum. I'd rather not get into how I know this, but it should be quite obvious.

Let's suppose that, no, it isn't 'quite obvious.' Can you cite some specific examples involving bands that have played PPUSA?

What I will say is that I know many producers. Some of which aren't very well known, and others are.

Awesome. Name six.

All of them can detect drum samples and overly edited music as well as auto tuned vocals when they hear it. Ask any metal producer, or one who is involved in metal production circles to know this. Bands come into the studio, track their instruments, and the producer edits everything and samples over live drums with robotic drumsounds. The result, is that modern metal production you get with pretty much all metal productions.

Woah.

You mean they actually....gulp!...know how to compose a song and play music?!

Pull the other leg, why doncha.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Words fail.

Overgeneralize much?

I'm not sure how to take that, coming from you, except ironic. What I will say, is that the vast vast majority of the metal (and rock in general) bands that I love are basement-trained musicians that couldn't play other styles of music. They didn't go to school, they just noodled around until they could learn their favorite bands' songs. In fact, that's how alot of proficient guitarists, such as Jeff Loomis and Michael Romeo were able to get their start. While they write great metal songs, I seriously doubt they could write a good hip hop beat, but I've seen plenty of hip hop musicians play everything from rock to jazz to classical, etc.

But fair enough. The actual fact of the matter is that there are exceptions to each rule, and plenty of them. This particular debate is just a matter of straw-grasping. The main sentiment here, is that none of this truly dictates "talent."

Let's suppose that, no, it isn't 'quite obvious.' Can you cite some specific examples involving bands that have played PPUSA?

You didn't read the blog I posted either? The one from Andy Sneap saying the majority of the bands that come to his studio can't properly play their own songs so they have to edit in the studio?

Awesome. Name six.

No. I don't need nor intend to drag friends of mine into a forum thank you very much. You'll have to either trust me or not. I do not care. I do think I've provided enough evidence in the blog I posted to support my point though. Many A&Rs at major metal labels including Monte Conner @ Roadrunner have publicly stated that the modern approach to production has yielded less tight bands who could barely play their stuff live.

Woah.

You mean they actually....gulp!...know how to compose a song and play music?!

Pull the other leg, why doncha.

This statement is dripping with fallacy on so many levels, so I guess that's probably why I don't find it funny. What exactly do you mean by "compose a song and play music?" How can you even properly define what that means? Do you not see how ridiculously subjective this statement is? I confess that I've made some 'opinionated' statements in this thread, but never anything like this. The idea of making such a dogmatic generalization on an entire genre of music is really pathetic. If your definition of composing and playing a song = being able to play standard rock instruments then you really need to open your mind up and accept other forms of art.

I'm not a fan of sampling much, but there are indeed times where it's done tastefully and artistically. Who are you to decide that a collage of existing paintings to make something completely new is some how less artistic than the Mona Lisa? How can anyone truly make that sort of judgment?

 

[DTJeff]

AeonicSlumber has said so many things here I fundamentally disagree with here that it's hard to keep track of them and I'm not sure whether or not I even feel like getting involved in this argument, especially since, from what I've seen here, he definitely seems like the kind of person who will never admit he might be wrong in an argument.