Rapper LIL WAYNE samples STRATOVARIUS on new song

[AeonicSlumber]

For the record, I happen to like Lil Wayne's latest album quite alot. He's definitely one of the few mainstream rappers that I enjoy.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

AeonicSlumber has said so many things here I fundamentally disagree with here that it's hard to keep track of them and I'm not sure whether or not I even feel like getting involved in this argument, especially since, from what I've seen here, he definitely seems like the kind of person who will never admit he might be wrong in an argument.

If you actually think there exists a right or wrong to this then there's not much else to be said. This is simply a matter of opinion in the most absolute sense. Posts like these kind of irk me because they are condescending, but vague and hesitant as if to say "I'm not quite sure about the statement I'm trying to make at the moment, but I'm going to post it in very cryptic tone to make it look like I am hiding an ace in the hole argument."

Ultimately, I'm glad I was able to show a few people who thought hip hop was just about bitches and hos otherwise and that there will always exist art that one can appreciate if he or she is open-minded enough to accept it. I'm not going to continue this debate because it's pointless. However if you would like me to respond, please PM and we can chat that way. Thanks for putting up with me!

 

[DTJeff]

If you actually think there exists a right or wrong to this then there's not much else to be said. This is simply a matter of opinion in the most absolute sense.

I never said it was a matter of right and wrong, it's not. I can just sense from the way you've been arguing here that you aren't really open to much of what other people are saying. You seem very convinced that there is no way you might be approaching some of these points inaccurately.

There are, however, certain aspects of this argument which are matters of facts and not opinions. I'm not talking about this talent vs. no talent, hip-hop vs. metal crap, I'm talking about your insisting that practically everyone cheats in the studio, because you happen to know some producers that told you that it happens. I'm not trying to say no one cheats, but it's FAR from everyone. There are still many, many bands out there who actually play very well on their own and don't rely on auto-tuned vocals and shifty editing to save their own asses. The advancement of technology over the years has certainly led to it being easy for bands to cheat their way to sounding good, but seriously, stop with this attitude that everyone is taking the easy way out.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Fair enough, but unfortunately the facts are true. As I have said, when Andy Sneap says he never had a single client who was rehearsed enough so they can perfectly track everything in the same manner as the old school, and when guys like Monte Conner, as well as tons of other bands say that most newer bands start out unable to play their own music properly because they "cheat" in the studio, I'd say it's a fact. As I have said several times now, I wouldn't have made my own personal knowledge that I am unwilling to fully disclose as my main defense. I've never heard of a modern metal band who has real drums in their masters, nor have I heard of one whose music wasn't edited in some form to cover up mistakes. The severity of the editing and pro-tooling obviously varies from band to band.

This will definitely be my last post in this thread. Cheers man! PM me if you would like to discuss it more in depth.

PS: a fun tidbit - Lars Ulrich's infamous drum sound on St. Anger comes from drum samples and not even live drums! Same goes for Death Magentic's drums. Fake! You don't have to believe me and that's ok. Hehe.

 

[General Zod]

You're making irrelevant judgments as a function of misinterpreting my post.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post... perhaps you didn't express yourself clearly.

I never said that there's no correlation between talent and technical proficiency.

Actually, you did...

...talent means being able to write a good song and has nothing whatsoever to do with technical proficiency.

That statement would seem to suggest a lack of correlation.

My comment about The Roots started with the phrase "if anything." Meaning that if I were to agree that mastery of an instrument yields musical talent, there are indeed hip hop musicians that could outplay most metal musicians. Most metal bands could never play the stuff that The Roots guys have to play on Jimmy Fallon's show for example.

The fact that there are a few outliers in the genre is somewhat irrelevant to the original point. Tammy's comment was that there's not an abundance of great musicianship in the genre. I'd say that's a fairly accurate characterization, at least from what I have seen.

If you neglected Andy Sneap's blog (you know, the guy who produced Nevermore, Megadeth, etc amongst others), that I cited (and subsequently linked), then you're only proving to me even more that you didn't properly read my posts.

While Andy is one of my favorite producers, his blog is not gospel. He is one producer, with one perspective.

What I will say is that I know many producers. Some of which aren't very well known, and others are. All of them can detect drum samples and overly edited music as well as auto tuned vocals when they hear it.

The use of a sampled drum sound in the studio is not an issue for me. The fact that a producer and a band chooses to use a sampled drum sound, rather than going through the time and expense of micing the drums, is irrelevant. Where Metal differentiates itself from Rap is that the Metal drummer wrote his drum line and can faithfully reproduce it live. Most Rap artists, or at least the ones I've been exposed to, don't even have a drummer.

Aesop Rock would be a good start.

Cool. I'll check those out.

Zod

 

[BlindPanzer]

I will hold off posting anything else in fear that my comments will get dissected and scrutinized like a dissertation defense meeting. =)

 

[dcowboys311]

It's amazing anyone feels being able to play music proficiently shouldn't be a requirement for a career in music.

Out of curiosity, what do you feel about a lot of electronic music? A whole lot of that (not sure how much as I don't listen to it) is done completely on computer programs. Does the fact that the music is composed and created on a computer and played live on a computer take away from its musicality? Or do you and others just see computers as a new instrument?

 

[General Zod]

Out of curiosity, what do you feel about a lot of electronic music? A whole lot of that (not sure how much as I don't listen to it) is done completely on computer programs. Does the fact that the music is composed and created on a computer and played live on a computer take away from its musicality? Or do you and others just see computers as a new instrument?

I don't see computers as an instrument. IMO, pressing "Play" at a concert doesn't make you a musician.

In the end, most aspects of music are completely subjective. I suspect the range of people creating music on computers is fairly wide. I do listen to music that can be classified as Electronica (or Lounge, or Lo-Fi). I'm by no means a Prog snob. My only measuring stick for music is, do I like it?

Zod

 

[zedowns]

Here's a track off my favorite electronic album.

BT - This Binary Universe.

 

[General Zod]

Here's a track off my favorite electronic album.

Nice. Check this out.



Zod

 

[Entrerie]

came in expecting "skeet skeet skeet at the speed of light".

 

[rushzil2112]

My buddy up at work is a lil wayne fan and he told me about an interview in which he says his biggest influences are hard rock and metal and that is mainly what he listens to.

 

[TribunalRecords]

i am getting into the very end of this debate, but being a current member in a band that has recorded 5 albums now and has worked with Jamie King at this basement studios both with my band and as a record label i can say that 99.9% of ALL commercially released metal music recorded TODAY is "fake." Sound replacement is used in almost ALL modern studios and has been used since the BIRTH of digital recording. Thanks to pro-tools its become common place. Auto-tuning, cut and paste, etc all lead to amazing sounding records and it's how it's done now. i mean for drums tones alone most studios have hundreds of tones you can select. ranging from vintage to more modern sounding. It's amazing, really.

This does not mean that the musicians cannot play their instruments it just means that the end result every label wants is a solid, produced album and that is how it's achieved without spending hours and hours and hours in a studio wasting money.

The bottom line is how bands pull off what is recorded when it comes time to perform it.

I have never seen Dragonforce, but i would love to see if they can actually play those solos that when recording they track at 1/4 the speed.

matt

 

[adaher]

came in expecting "skeet skeet skeet at the speed of light".

That's funny.


"Been hunting high and low for that ho'"

 

[Pellaz]

"Been hunting high and low for that ho'"

 

[Corsair]

Power metal without dragons and swords??? Surely you jest!!! I'll believe that the day I see Oscar from Hammerfall NOT wearing 45 pounds of chains and studs!

You mean it's not!?
I keed, of course.

Within any given genre, one need only look outside the mainstream (and the rats riding on it's coattails) to find counterexamples.

 

[Photino Decay]

I never said anything about technical prowess. The Beastie Boys contacted Malcolm Young one time to ask permission to use "You Shook Me All Night Long". He turned their offer down flat, because he felt like they should make their own damn song. My point being, it doesn't take that much talent to overdub lyrics using an artist's song if you're a halfway decent lyricist.

~Brian~

So you're saying that the singers in metal bands are the least talented ones of the bunch?

 

[SeaStorm]

I too am curious how he came across Strato and if Strato has any idea about this.

I've had some experience with sampling from the legal side. Assuming he's on a major label, I can pretty much guarantee you that his lawyers contacted Strato and came to an agreement on compensation before this song ever made a public appearance.

 

[No-Mercy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[AMBR]

I've had some experience with sampling from the legal side. Assuming he's on a major label, I can pretty much guarantee you that his lawyers contacted Strato and came to an agreement on compensation before this song ever made a public appearance.

No he didn't. Jens said in their forum that they weren't on the first song and I don't think he knew of the second until someone mentioned it in their forum. Of course they both have ties to Universal so maybe the label ok'd it w/o the band's knowledge.