Raw drum test between Delta1010LT and Profire 2626

[Erkan]

Hello hello!

Yeah so.. a few months ago I quickly set the mics up to capture a shitty drum performance just to have something to compare against the Profire 2626 I was going to buy. So I recorded one last thing with my Delta1010LT in my rehearsal place, then took the Delta1010LT home for some song writing at home, and bought the Profire 2626 for the "studio"/rehearsal room.

So before we get into the listening, I'd like to point out a few things. The drum heads are kinda old, the room has sucky acoustics and I have a huge window behind me which wasn't covered with any dampening material for the Delta1010LT test. On the Profire test however, I covered the window with a fluffy blanket. That blanket was used to separate/isolate the bass drum on the Delta1010LT test while the bass drum is open/free/as normal in the Profire test. My playing also seems to be much better on the Profire test... :O The Delta1010LT test has a little higher overall volume it seems, and the snare track is clipping a little because I couldn't lower the gain any more on the Delta1010LT card, weird shit.

The drums are 100% raw, and the kick sounds like a bag of SHIT. I think the kick mic is kind of... well, broken or something. On the Profire test, it sounds like it's farting and it's not due to clipping because it isn't clipping. Might be something internal within the mic... ah whatever, I usually blend in samples quite heavily so who cares. I would like to give this a quick go and mix it a little bit but it's also quite fun to listen to 100% raw drum tracks, atleast for comparison purposes.

So here is the Delta1010LT test: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/Reaper Drum Test Delta1010LT.mp3

And here is the Profire 2626 test: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/Reaper Drum Test Profire 2626.mp3

Now.. I should've made this a blind test but I didn't feel it's worth it because I'm really not happy with the performance and tracking I did on the Delta1010LT test, but still, pretend you're neutral. Which one sounds better to you? Can you detect the difference in the preamps, the converters and bla bla yada yada?

Thanks for listening =)

 

[Morgan C]

I don't really notice a difference. The Delta one may be a little louder though, and the snare sounds a bit more trashcanny.

I don't think the room sounds that bad. The cymbals have very good stereo definition, apart from the ride. I like the snare in the ProFire test, but the kicks and toms obviously need a lot of work.

Fucking awesome playing though. 'Bleed' was super tight.

 

[nwright]

I think there are too many variables to adequately assess the differences between the preamps and whatnot. The drums sound a little more dead in the Profire clip, but I prefer that sound, so that along makes me want to choose the profire. Also, *feel* like it sounds clearer and punchier, but again it could be that they aren't as lively, so they seem more in your face.

 

[Erkan]

Yeah I think the fluffy blanket might be the reason for the Profire clip to be a bit more dead and punchy. I think I liked the toms very very slightly more in the Delta1010LT clip and I don't understand why they don't sound the same in the Profire clip... I've miced it up pretty much the same way as in the Delta1010LT clip.

If I would take the blanket off of the window, I think the difference between the Delta1010LT and the Profire wouldn't be that huge... certainly not in a mix. Anyway, I'm still happy with the Profire since I'm not "independant" and don't need to use any mixer to get the additional preamps needed. It's nice to have it all in one piece.

But seriously, can a kick drum sound worse than this? The kick sounds just fine in the room, even with my earphones on, and it sounds really cool while recording (probably because I hear the drum both live and monitored through the Profire) but when I play back the recorded sound, it's just shit. I mic it up at the hole which is placed a bit to the side of the centre of the skin. I just make sure the mic is at the middle of the hole and that the mic points towards the area where beater hits the skin. I'd bet the kick mic is the problem here though... it doesn't pick up any high end at all it seems.

I also would like to get a little more attack from the toms. I hit them decently hard (much harder than I have previously) but the Profire clip still lacks the attack of the Delta clip. Maybe I should point the mics a bit more to the centre to pick up some more stick attack.

 

[Morgan C]

But seriously, can a kick drum sound worse than this? The kick sounds just fine in the room, even with my earphones on, and it sounds really cool while recording (probably because I hear the drum both live and monitored through the Profire) but when I play back the recorded sound, it's just shit. I mic it up at the hole which is placed a bit to the side of the centre of the skin. I just make sure the mic is at the middle of the hole and that the mic points towards the area where beater hits the skin. I'd bet the kick mic is the problem here though... it doesn't pick up any high end at all it seems.

I also would like to get a little more attack from the toms. I hit them decently hard (much harder than I have previously) but the Profire clip still lacks the attack of the Delta clip. Maybe I should point the mics a bit more to the centre to pick up some more stick attack.

What mics are you using on everything?

I had that same farty sound on kick.. sent in my mic and realised I'd bought a fake Beta52. But I think you're using cheap mics aren't you? That + hard hitting may result in you overloading the mics.

And new heads on your toms will help a LOT. Also, if you've got some cash to spend, I highly recommend e902 on toms. Listen to the very end of this clip (http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/Drums4Oct Raw.mp3), thats raw. Very little bleed and huge sound; and that's with 2year old heads in a garage. They're meant for kicks but metal toms are so scooped anyways.

 

[Erkan]

What mics are you using on everything?

I had that same farty sound on kick.. sent in my mic and realised I'd bought a fake Beta52. But I think you're using cheap mics aren't you? That + hard hitting may result in you overloading the mics.

And new heads on your toms will help a LOT. Also, if you've got some cash to spend, I highly recommend e902 on toms. Listen to the very end of this clip (http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/Drums4Oct Raw.mp3), thats raw. Very little bleed and huge sound; and that's with 2year old heads in a garage. They're meant for kicks but metal toms are so scooped anyways.

You're right about me using cheap mics, you remember correctly It's not worth mentioning what mics I'm using since nobody will know of their existence but basically they're called JJLabs DK7 (DK7 is a 7 mic kit for drums as the name reveals). Basically, the most expensive mic I'm using is a 57 and that's actually underneath the snare in the Profire clip. I think I was using the 57 on top on the Delta clip though. Yeah that's probably it... I guess I'm overloading the mic and there's not much to do about it, but I'm actually glad that I've now gotten to the point where I feel I need new mics and that's what it's all about. Using what you have until you feel you need something more because you've grown. If my economy just scaled the same way as my knowledge, I'd be a happy guy!

Oh, that clip is raw huh? Sounds like you've scooped it out with an EQ already! In that case, it might be too scooped to be honest.. I mean, if that's the raw recording. I think I'd like to have some more mids to toy with in the mix, rather than having to boost the mids (wow that's a strange phenomenon in metal drums huh!). But yeah... my next purchase is probably going to be a set of decent drum mics. The overheads are pretty usable though, don't you think? They're from the same kit but somehow, they seem much better quality-wise than the rest of the mics. Just sucks I'm gonna have to record my next project with these mics but I'm gonna make the best of it.. should change the heads too but damn it, it's not as cheap as changing strings! =)

 

[Felix Neumann]

I like the playing a lot, dude

And it sounded good. Raw? Great recording work so far! Didn´t recognized great differences between both versions though.

 

[MartijnPaauwe]

Interesting

It indeed sounds like something in your kickdrum chain is broken, 'cos in the beginning of the Profire test you hit the kick several times. At first the plop isn't there and later on you can hear it. It keeps coming and going at random to. I sincerely hope it is only a broken cable and not your mic that's fucked up.

It can hear a little difference between the two, the Profire clip is sounding clearer (less muffled then the Delta one) and with more definition, but like you said yourself the blanket might be doing that. The drumsounds are pretty usable for a mix in my opinion. Some new heads and better mics will certainly give you a near professional sound

And like everyone else said, that some friggin' sick drumming!

 

[Erkan]

I like the playing a lot, dude

And it sounded good. Raw? Great recording work so far! Didn´t recognized great differences between both versions though.

Thanks a lot Felix! It's always nice to get a few compliments on the playing =)

Yeah the tracks are raw and I haven't really been "serious" about tracking drums for previous projects, you know.. I've been kind of that "fix it in the mix" type of guy even though I already knew that's a very bad thing to do but I just didn't have the energy to care that much before on those projects. So therefore, now that I do have the energy to do tests and fiddle around to get the most out of my gear, I want to get it as good as I can. I feel like the sound is too "far away" or roomy though, but I must admit... I'm not really experienced with micing up drums and therefore I don't really know what a raw kit is supposed to sound like in the studio. I've heard some of the guys around here posting some 100% raw drums which totally slayed mine though! But then again... my whole mic collection equals to one of their mics haha =)

Anyway, I guess it should turn out decent once compression is added and the boxy frequencies have been scooped out and some lows and highs have been boosted.

Interesting

It indeed sounds like something in your kickdrum chain is broken, 'cos in the beginning of the Profire test you hit the kick several times. At first the plop isn't there and later on you can hear it. It keeps coming and going at random to. I sincerely hope it is only a broken cable and not your mic that's fucked up.

It can hear a little difference between the two, the Profire clip is sounding clearer (less muffled then the Delta one) and with more definition, but like you said yourself the blanket might be doing that. The drumsounds are pretty usable for a mix in my opinion. Some new heads and better mics will certainly give you a near professional sound

And like everyone else said, that some friggin' sick drumming!

Yeah, I "hope" the mic isn't broken too (although it's a shitty mic so I guess I don't really care and thank god for sample blending/replacement).

Oh yes, new heads would be very nice but I haven't decided if it's worth changing yet... I could probably get away with the ones that are on right now, but then again... I really want the best I can get for my next project. I want it to be a milestone in my history of recording and so on. Perhaps I should change them =) I've got Emperor Clear heads on the toms right now, and I'm thinking of going back to Pinstripe Clear again in that case. The kick head doesn't really matter since it's still in good shape and it's a Powerstroke 3 Clear. The snare head is semi-new but it's an Ambassador Coated and quite ringy, maybe I should get something slightly less ringy and more powerful but I don't wanna lose out on the "crack".

And yeah, I also feel the Profire clip is more defined but I'm not sure how much of that is the work of the blanket covering the windows. Apart from that, I haven't really noticed any dramatic difference. I was expecting a huge difference because I always thought the Delta1010LT had the absolutely cheapest and shittiest of all preamps and converters and the switch to M-Audio's Octane Preamps didn't really enlighten me but then again, I may not be experienced enough to hear/appreciate the difference yet. One thing I'm happy about though is that the PCI bus inference noise is now gone... I was getting some nasty noise on my Delta1010LT card since it was picking up noise from the data travelling and interfering with the Delta card in the PCI bus

The noise can be heard here btw: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/585020/Noise.wav (turn up the volume, it's quiet)

I made a thread about it a long time ago but got no replies, but as time went on, I got to know that it was a common issue and was known as "PCI bus intereference" or something like that. Now imagine having that on all 8 drum tracks, and after EQ and Compression which brings up the noise floor, it's kinda audible.

 

[Cyanide_Anima]

I don't really have anything to add to the conversation that hasn't already been said. So ill just say...


Goddamn! You can play the shit out of those drums!

 

[Felix Neumann]

You play an awesome drum, Erkan...the real machine!!! On this forum this is fucking precious and appreciative. It´s one of the hardest challenges in recording/mixing engineering. It´s THE Evidence for being a good audio engineer, recording and mixing drums qualitatively. I know, it´s a hard way, but that should be the goal for all people, making recordings. I´m still working hard to get a good drum sound (since yeeears), maybe in a couple of years I´m really satisfactory with it

 

[Erkan]

I don't really have anything to add to the conversation that hasn't already been said. So ill just say...


Goddamn! You can play the shit out of those drums!

Thanks man, it really means a lot to me to hear that =)

You play an awesome drum, Erkan...the real machine!!! On this forum this is fucking precious and appreciative. It´s one of the hardest challenges in recording/mixing engineering. It´s THE Evidence for being a good audio engineer, recording and mixing drums qualitatively. I know, it´s a hard way, but that should be the goal for all people, making recordings. I´m still working hard to get a good drum sound (since yeeears), maybe in a couple of years I´m really satisfactory with it

Thanks a lot Felix! I strive to be as consistent and tight as possible ... I know the pain of audio engineers working with bad drummers so I try to be a good drummer haha It also helps a lot that I'm sort of into this audio engineering myself, so I know what to do and what not to do on the drums and so on.

I hope you are joking about your drum sound. I remember you posted something earlier with some Samson mics and stuff and it sounded absolutely KILLER to me.

 

[Felix Neumann]

Thanks a lot Felix! I strive to be as consistent and tight as possible ... I know the pain of audio engineers working with bad drummers so I try to be a good drummer haha It also helps a lot that I'm sort of into this audio engineering myself, so I know what to do and what not to do on the drums and so on.

I hope you are joking about your drum sound. I remember you posted something earlier with some Samson mics and stuff and it sounded absolutely KILLER to me.

Yeah dude, you´re welcome I give some drum lessons privately and I try to teach em drumming exactly like I would prefer it as an recording engineer. It´s possible that I posted some drum recordings, what sounded pretty good, but there is a lot of space for improvement. It´s not the problem working with replaced elements. "Channel seperation" is the keyword and the real problem, especially the Hi-Hat in the snare microphone..haha that nearly killed me in the past The temptation is...put a replaced sample on the snare´s track and the problem would be solved easily.

 

[GarethSE]

i fucking love your drum playing