REAPER, rendering creates loss of punch and attack

[Mm1066]

I use REAPER mainly for recording and mixing, but if I render the master track as a WAV using it the bounced file always seems to loose a bit of quality and can often make drum hits sound flat instead of punchy.

Here are the render settings I have:

Sample rate 44100Hz
Resample mode (if needed): Best (384pt Sinc - VERY SLOW)
Output format WAV
WAV bit depth 24 bit PCM

Render master mix, dither & noise shaping are all checked.

Is there anything blatantly wrong with what I'm doing or is it just a side effect of using REAPER?

 

[UncleBob]

Sounds odd, what are your bit depth and sample rate settings for recording/mixing?

 

[if6was9]

Are you playing them back in different software? Could have some EQ or something on your media player. Shouldn't change the sound at all when you render from what you're hearing on your master.

 

[ForHerDeadEyes]

It's a weird side effect of Reaper..
I've read many complaints about this on the Reaper forum..
The mixes come out completly different than what they sound like when playing them in the DAW..

IIRC, "Save live output to disc (Bounce)" gives the best result = Gives you what you hear in the DAW..

 

[Catalin]

I am using Reaper and i have the same problem. Until now i tought that the problem it's only in my head :zombie:

 

[Fbarre]

Which version of reaper are you using? It might work trying it with version 4 beta pre-release: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22836

 

[Fama]

Also check that you haven't routed any tracks straight into your soundcard (as in, not the master bus but your sound card). I did that once.

Other than that, my mixes always sound the same after rendering, so this sounds weird.

 

[Ascendant]

Why are you dithering? Shouldn't be causing such a noticeable effect but as long as you're not rendering to a lower bit depth there is no reason to dither. I can safely say that I've never experienced this with Reaper, perhaps I'm doing something different than you guys..?

 

[Fbarre]

I also never had any problems, however I don't use any dither or noise shaping options while rendering.

 

[Mm1066]

Sounds odd, what are your bit depth and sample rate settings for recording/mixing?

Just the same as the ones I have up there. I don't know about the rates of the samples (kick and snare) that I replaced, they are the ones being affected most. Guitars I don't know, but they were recorded externally out of my hands so I don't know.

Are you playing them back in different software? Could have some EQ or something on your media player. Shouldn't change the sound at all when you render from what you're hearing on your master.

Actually yes I do, I'll try listening in iTunes or Quicktime instead.

It's a weird side effect of Reaper..
I've read many complaints about this on the Reaper forum..
The mixes come out completly different than what they sound like when playing them in the DAW..

IIRC, "Save live output to disc (Bounce)" gives the best result = Gives you what you hear in the DAW..

Damnit, I knew there had to be a catch!

Maybe I'll try that update thing. REAPER 4 has been pretty hyped, so it better live up to that.

Edit: Ok so I tried the pre release version of REAPER and I think it sounds much better than before.

 

[P-E]

try seeing if they phase cancel. take the export, add it in and see if they cancel or not with one's phase inverted

 

[Fbarre]

I just tried it myself. I exported a stereo file which was mixed in digital performer and rendered it through reaper. It perfectly cancels with the phase inverted. I'm on reaper v4.0 beta 12.

 

[fatalforce]

it might be the pan law setting? its default to 0 but I know protools is -2.5. where are you listening to the bounce track from?

 

[spacem00se]

I have the same problem but I just thought it may be that in Reaper I use ASIO drivers which go at -0bD, while for listening "outside" of Reaper I use stock soundcard drivers turned down to 30-50%, and the rest is caused by psychoacoustic effects (loud = better sounding).

 

[Fbarre]

BTW my pan law setting was -3db with gain compensation ticked.

 

[Mm1066]

it might be the pan law setting? its default to 0 but I know protools is -2.5. where are you listening to the bounce track from?

It was just a package that allowed me to change speed and pitch from the get go. I think that might have something to do with it. Sounds fine in iTunes though.

 

[Nimvi]

Eventough it looks like you already fixed the problem, I'll throw in my 2c.

are you running Slate VCC Mixbus on the masterbus? I think that it uses multiple oversampling during offline rendering by default, and I find that this tends to smooth out the render, but it also seems to "smudge" the render a bit. Might be related to that.

PS: Jey first post!

 

[Mm1066]

Eventough it looks like you already fixed the problem, I'll throw in my 2c.

are you running Slate VCC Mixbus on the masterbus? I think that it uses multiple oversampling during offline rendering by default, and I find that this tends to smooth out the render, but it also seems to "smudge" the render a bit. Might be related to that.

PS: Jey first post!

Thanks for giving me your post virginity

But no I don't use that. The only thing I use on the master bus is Voxengo Span to check for frequency spikes and measure the RMS level.

 

[Nimvi]

Thanks for giving me your post virginity

But no I don't use that. The only thing I use on the master bus is Voxengo Span to check for frequency spikes and measure the RMS level.

I saved it for someone special

But is your problem solved by using the new Reaper beta? If so, I might try it out as well...

 

[DaveBlack]

I had a strange thing happen to me the other day as well. For some reason after rendering, my soundtoys echoboy delay was way off time. Everything was synched to the grid (MIDI enabled on the echoboy). I rendered it multiple times and got the same results. I wonder if it would have the same affect on something like a compression plugin and poof, there's goes your punch and attack. Maybe i should try reaper 4 too.