Alright, now that I have your attention, hear me out.
This is not a thread about which DAW is better. This is about this fucking stupid constant conflict between the Reaper userbase and the Pro Tools userbase. I am going to say a lot of things that might offend people, but understand I am not intending to insult anyone's skills/experience/intelligence/etc. None of this is about any specific person or people unless I mention names, so dudes like digitaldeath, darthjuju, etc. do NOT take this personally in any way, I have had these same feelings about this situation for months and none of this is in any way directly related to the back and forth that was going on in the PT9 thread, you guys are sweet and I want to make babies with you.
Anyways, here goes.
Reaper is $60/$225 depending on whether you want a personal or commercial license. This is cheap. The demo is also uncrippled and unexpiring. This makes it free to most people. Instantly, because of the sort of semi-freeware place it takes up in the market, it is scoffed at as being "cheap", "toyish", "amateur", etc. There are only 4 guys on payroll for the whole company, not exactly a big corporation, which also contributes to the inherent "unprofessional" image that a lot of engineers see in it.
Now, because of how easy it is to get yourself into a copy of Reaper, it also means it becomes the DAW of choice for people who are completely new to audio engineering. This means a HUGE amount of the userbase are unknowledgeable, inexperience and unskilled. This isn't an insult, everyone has to start from scratch and learn somewhere, and nowadays a vast amount of those people are learning in Reaper.
It also means that another huge portion of the userbase are very casual hobbyists. These are people who like recording music, but don't take it very seriously and don't strive to be putting out professional quality work.
Yet another large portion of the userbase are cheap people or people just recording demo ideas in their apartment. These people are usually making mixes with amp sims, programmed drums, etc. There is nothing wrong with amp sims or programmed drums or the people who use them, but they are not tools that your average professional audio engineer uses on a regular basis. The sort of quality mixes people are used to are usually created with real performances and recording real instruments. That is not to say it is not possible to create quality mixes with these tools, just to say that there are only a small number of engineers actually putting out legitimate professional quality work using these methods.
Combine those 3 groups of people and you have a lot of people using Reaper without knowing anything about the professional recording process. This means that you will see these people talking about workflows they use in Reaper that are frankly terrible. It also means you will hear a lot of poor mixes that were created in Reaper.
So now you have "engineers" discussing things in Reaper on message boards that make them look like amateurs as well as poor mixes created by Reaper users that don't help either. This of course does nothing but contribute to the professional audio engineering world's negative view of the software and it's userbase.
The other problem that this creates is in the development of the software. When you have a very high number of users (especially passionate users) who have never in their life worked with another host (especially one like Pro Tools that is built on the foundations of professional analog workflow), they sort of get in the way when the more experienced engineers who are giving Reaper a shot make suggestions about things to change that aren't exactly "exciting" or "sexy". This is no fault of their own, they simply don't know any better, but because they don't know any better and don't know how a very simple feature like "Record" could be improved, they are happy with it as is and pour their votes into adding more advanced functionality to build onto a framework that isn't complete yet.
This means the software doesn't move as quickly in the direction that it needs to to attract a more professional userbase because most pro audio engineers don't have time to test things or make suggestions. They would rather work with a more established DAW that already does the basics flawlessly even if it means spending a lot more money or dealing with other frustrating limitations.
Reaper is also extremely customizable. For someone like myself who records bands fairly regularly but not full time for a living with constant deadlines, this is great. I can make Reaper exactly what I want it to be because for the most part the tools are there to do it and I have enough experience with other hosts to know how things could be better. The default Reaper setup (preferences/options/key commands/menus) is not conducive to an efficient tracking, editing and mixing workflow. It absolutely needs to be customized to make Reaper powerful and fast. This is a huge deal breaker for professional AEs because they do not have time to do this. I have put tons of work into my Reaper setup, arguably more than just about any other user, and I am constantly striving to add and improve basic functions in Reaper that don't really excite the "new" user base since they don't understand how it improves the basic workflow.
The other thing that doesn't help is that these Reaper users who have no real experience with other hosts (ie haven't at the very least tracked, edited and mixed several sessions in Pro Tools) seem to latch onto this dogma of automatic "Pro Tools hate." "Oh there's no ADC, you need to use shitty Avid hardware, it doesn't have offline rendering, you can't use VSTs" are the sort of things you constantly here, and even before PT9 these arguments were stupid because they were coming from people who had only read about the negative shit in Pro Tools, and hadn't actually worked with Pro Tools enough to realize that the basic shit is so fucking good compared to other hosts which is why PT users put up with all that bullshit. Or why someone like Lasse who doesn't actually really need the TDM shit would still drop a FORTUNE on Pro Tools HD just because the basic workflow and user interface is so much better than the competition that it was worth it just to not have the headaches.
From what I've seen, in general the dedicated Pro Tools user base scoffs at Reaper purely because of the users, whether they realize it or not. When most of the user base comes across as amateurs, it isn't a stretch to shrug off the tools they are using as well. Of course Reaper isn't perfect in a lot of ways either, but the customizability at least gives you the choice to fix a lot of things and get yourself in the ballpark. Editing in Reaper for me is now as user friendly and as quick if not quicker than editing in Pro Tools. But out of the box editing in Reaper is a disaster.
What I'm getting at here is that I hate being in the middle of this shit. I have used every host under the sun and I actually left Reaper for Logic because prior to 3.45, Reaper was missing absolutely crucial functionality for me. After I realized how much more I hated Logic than Reaper, I moved to Pro Tools and was so happy there aside from stability issues I had on my system and of course the limitations nobody was happy about with LE/M-Powered in general.
It bums me out to see so many PT guys hating on Reaper when if they had the time I could set them up with everything they needed to know and get them kicking ass in it as well as they do in Pro Tools.
It also drives me fucking crazy to see Reaper users talking shit about Pro Tools when they have no idea how much better the basic workflow is in Pro Tools compared to Reaper. It's the incessant trespassing in non-Reaper related threads and constant "Reaper is better Pro Tools is stupid" crap that pisses off the PT base even more and gives Reaper an even worse reputation amongst pro audio engineers.
Like I've said a million times, I am the biggest Reaper fanboy around. But I also went to school for computer science and I love hacking around with it and building it into what I want. I also spent a long time working solely with Pro Tools and know it inside and out, and most of the Pro Tools bashing is totally unjust when Reaper has just as many flaws, just in different areas.
So this is merely a prayer that with any luck, the Pro Tools guys can have a bit of an open mind and not just auto-hate on Reaper, and that the Reaper dudes can back off and stop pissing off the Pro Tools dudes. I love both platforms. If you know both of them really well, then you are entitled to an opinion about both, but if you aren't an experienced Pro Tools user, then you don't have much right to shit talk it, just as much as people who aren't experienced Reaper users don't have much right to shit talk Reaper either.
This is not a thread about which DAW is better. This is about this fucking stupid constant conflict between the Reaper userbase and the Pro Tools userbase. I am going to say a lot of things that might offend people, but understand I am not intending to insult anyone's skills/experience/intelligence/etc. None of this is about any specific person or people unless I mention names, so dudes like digitaldeath, darthjuju, etc. do NOT take this personally in any way, I have had these same feelings about this situation for months and none of this is in any way directly related to the back and forth that was going on in the PT9 thread, you guys are sweet and I want to make babies with you.
Anyways, here goes.
Reaper is $60/$225 depending on whether you want a personal or commercial license. This is cheap. The demo is also uncrippled and unexpiring. This makes it free to most people. Instantly, because of the sort of semi-freeware place it takes up in the market, it is scoffed at as being "cheap", "toyish", "amateur", etc. There are only 4 guys on payroll for the whole company, not exactly a big corporation, which also contributes to the inherent "unprofessional" image that a lot of engineers see in it.
Now, because of how easy it is to get yourself into a copy of Reaper, it also means it becomes the DAW of choice for people who are completely new to audio engineering. This means a HUGE amount of the userbase are unknowledgeable, inexperience and unskilled. This isn't an insult, everyone has to start from scratch and learn somewhere, and nowadays a vast amount of those people are learning in Reaper.
It also means that another huge portion of the userbase are very casual hobbyists. These are people who like recording music, but don't take it very seriously and don't strive to be putting out professional quality work.
Yet another large portion of the userbase are cheap people or people just recording demo ideas in their apartment. These people are usually making mixes with amp sims, programmed drums, etc. There is nothing wrong with amp sims or programmed drums or the people who use them, but they are not tools that your average professional audio engineer uses on a regular basis. The sort of quality mixes people are used to are usually created with real performances and recording real instruments. That is not to say it is not possible to create quality mixes with these tools, just to say that there are only a small number of engineers actually putting out legitimate professional quality work using these methods.
Combine those 3 groups of people and you have a lot of people using Reaper without knowing anything about the professional recording process. This means that you will see these people talking about workflows they use in Reaper that are frankly terrible. It also means you will hear a lot of poor mixes that were created in Reaper.
So now you have "engineers" discussing things in Reaper on message boards that make them look like amateurs as well as poor mixes created by Reaper users that don't help either. This of course does nothing but contribute to the professional audio engineering world's negative view of the software and it's userbase.
The other problem that this creates is in the development of the software. When you have a very high number of users (especially passionate users) who have never in their life worked with another host (especially one like Pro Tools that is built on the foundations of professional analog workflow), they sort of get in the way when the more experienced engineers who are giving Reaper a shot make suggestions about things to change that aren't exactly "exciting" or "sexy". This is no fault of their own, they simply don't know any better, but because they don't know any better and don't know how a very simple feature like "Record" could be improved, they are happy with it as is and pour their votes into adding more advanced functionality to build onto a framework that isn't complete yet.
This means the software doesn't move as quickly in the direction that it needs to to attract a more professional userbase because most pro audio engineers don't have time to test things or make suggestions. They would rather work with a more established DAW that already does the basics flawlessly even if it means spending a lot more money or dealing with other frustrating limitations.
Reaper is also extremely customizable. For someone like myself who records bands fairly regularly but not full time for a living with constant deadlines, this is great. I can make Reaper exactly what I want it to be because for the most part the tools are there to do it and I have enough experience with other hosts to know how things could be better. The default Reaper setup (preferences/options/key commands/menus) is not conducive to an efficient tracking, editing and mixing workflow. It absolutely needs to be customized to make Reaper powerful and fast. This is a huge deal breaker for professional AEs because they do not have time to do this. I have put tons of work into my Reaper setup, arguably more than just about any other user, and I am constantly striving to add and improve basic functions in Reaper that don't really excite the "new" user base since they don't understand how it improves the basic workflow.
The other thing that doesn't help is that these Reaper users who have no real experience with other hosts (ie haven't at the very least tracked, edited and mixed several sessions in Pro Tools) seem to latch onto this dogma of automatic "Pro Tools hate." "Oh there's no ADC, you need to use shitty Avid hardware, it doesn't have offline rendering, you can't use VSTs" are the sort of things you constantly here, and even before PT9 these arguments were stupid because they were coming from people who had only read about the negative shit in Pro Tools, and hadn't actually worked with Pro Tools enough to realize that the basic shit is so fucking good compared to other hosts which is why PT users put up with all that bullshit. Or why someone like Lasse who doesn't actually really need the TDM shit would still drop a FORTUNE on Pro Tools HD just because the basic workflow and user interface is so much better than the competition that it was worth it just to not have the headaches.
From what I've seen, in general the dedicated Pro Tools user base scoffs at Reaper purely because of the users, whether they realize it or not. When most of the user base comes across as amateurs, it isn't a stretch to shrug off the tools they are using as well. Of course Reaper isn't perfect in a lot of ways either, but the customizability at least gives you the choice to fix a lot of things and get yourself in the ballpark. Editing in Reaper for me is now as user friendly and as quick if not quicker than editing in Pro Tools. But out of the box editing in Reaper is a disaster.
What I'm getting at here is that I hate being in the middle of this shit. I have used every host under the sun and I actually left Reaper for Logic because prior to 3.45, Reaper was missing absolutely crucial functionality for me. After I realized how much more I hated Logic than Reaper, I moved to Pro Tools and was so happy there aside from stability issues I had on my system and of course the limitations nobody was happy about with LE/M-Powered in general.
It bums me out to see so many PT guys hating on Reaper when if they had the time I could set them up with everything they needed to know and get them kicking ass in it as well as they do in Pro Tools.
It also drives me fucking crazy to see Reaper users talking shit about Pro Tools when they have no idea how much better the basic workflow is in Pro Tools compared to Reaper. It's the incessant trespassing in non-Reaper related threads and constant "Reaper is better Pro Tools is stupid" crap that pisses off the PT base even more and gives Reaper an even worse reputation amongst pro audio engineers.
Like I've said a million times, I am the biggest Reaper fanboy around. But I also went to school for computer science and I love hacking around with it and building it into what I want. I also spent a long time working solely with Pro Tools and know it inside and out, and most of the Pro Tools bashing is totally unjust when Reaper has just as many flaws, just in different areas.
So this is merely a prayer that with any luck, the Pro Tools guys can have a bit of an open mind and not just auto-hate on Reaper, and that the Reaper dudes can back off and stop pissing off the Pro Tools dudes. I love both platforms. If you know both of them really well, then you are entitled to an opinion about both, but if you aren't an experienced Pro Tools user, then you don't have much right to shit talk it, just as much as people who aren't experienced Reaper users don't have much right to shit talk Reaper either.
