Recording an orchestra
- Thread starter jangoux
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Lucas D'Angelo
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- Jan 11, 2011
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What is the purpose ? If it's for a movie score, you might wanna do a 5.1 sound take ! I have never done it by myself but I know that there are some specific mic "patterns" that are often used in this case (tree of something if I remember well)
Anyway, in most orchestral recording sessions you will use ambiance mics as the main sources (which means you have to do it in a pretty awesome and large room ) , and sometimes a few close up mics to help specific instruments coming out a little bit
That's about all I know ! I'll let the ones who have true experience of this speak
If you are planning to do some orchestral recordings then congrats man you are very lucky It's an awesome experience !
I have been lucky enough to witness a huge orchestral recording session for a film score, that was just incredible . ( photos of the room / control room : http://www.guillaumetell.com/us/ra.htm : http://www.guillaumetell.com/pix/controlabig.jpg ......... : )
Anyway, in most orchestral recording sessions you will use ambiance mics as the main sources (which means you have to do it in a pretty awesome and large room ) , and sometimes a few close up mics to help specific instruments coming out a little bit
That's about all I know ! I'll let the ones who have true experience of this speak
If you are planning to do some orchestral recordings then congrats man you are very lucky
It's an awesome experience !I have been lucky enough to witness a huge orchestral recording session for a film score, that was just incredible . ( photos of the room / control room : http://www.guillaumetell.com/us/ra.htm : http://www.guillaumetell.com/pix/controlabig.jpg ......... :
)What size orchestra? I have done stereo pairs with pretty good success. If it is just a string quartet, easily go with a stereo pair. If necessary, use spots. With stereo pairs you have to be really patient and willing to tweak the mic positioning a ton. Being in a good room helps as well.
JoergieN
Member
Trevoire520
Member
You'd be surprised how many orchestra's are recorded with just a stereo pair and maybe a couple of spot mic's if needed.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
I tend to hate that approach, strings sound almost fake like samples in most cases. Personally I am a fan of close micing to get all the nuances and using ambient mics for...well ambiance.
I'd be more tempted to mic the principal chair of every instrument, then maybe some spot mics in certain locations, a stereo pair at the conductor's podium and stereo pair all the way out as far as you can get. You would still be mixing in most of the conductor's mics more often then not, but you have options. My biggest gripe with most orchestral recordings is that they are too washed up and a lot of the nuances of the instruments have been lost. If you have ever heard any orchestral instrument in person you would know what I am talking about.
Brett - K A L I S I A
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- May 9, 2006
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Well, the producer is going to talk to my boss in a couple hours, so I don't have all the details yet. Here's what I got so far:
- 20 musicians orchestra + conductor
- It will be really and orchestral recording - no music score stuff
- we've got one Neumann u87, one Neumann TLM149, a Neuman KM184 pair, an Audio TEchnica 4060 and 4047, an AKG 414, a Royer 121.
- It will be nine different songs or..pieces..or whatever ehhe
LAst night I searched around gearslutz for some info, but nobody seems to find a consensus on a starting point for mic'ing an orchestra. I am thinking myself of recording an stereo pair near the conductor, in maybe ORTF or XY or something like that and then some 'group' spot microphones. But, to be honest, I don't have a clue if I should always use cardioid pattern, fig8..I have VERY limited experience recording strings (did violins a few times with terrible musicians, and cello once).
- 20 musicians orchestra + conductor
- It will be really and orchestral recording - no music score stuff
- we've got one Neumann u87, one Neumann TLM149, a Neuman KM184 pair, an Audio TEchnica 4060 and 4047, an AKG 414, a Royer 121.
- It will be nine different songs or..pieces..or whatever ehhe
LAst night I searched around gearslutz for some info, but nobody seems to find a consensus on a starting point for mic'ing an orchestra. I am thinking myself of recording an stereo pair near the conductor, in maybe ORTF or XY or something like that and then some 'group' spot microphones. But, to be honest, I don't have a clue if I should always use cardioid pattern, fig8..I have VERY limited experience recording strings (did violins a few times with terrible musicians, and cello once).
So far from anything I've done....but
I'd mic up each group, above the groups centre if possible, or closest to the lead chair, try and make sure that the distance between the mics for each group vs the distance of the mic to their group observes 3:1, and midside the lot for ambient.
Assuming you have enough mics of course. Depends on what those 20 people are composed of. Percussion might demand more attention on its own, for example.
I'd mic up each group, above the groups centre if possible, or closest to the lead chair, try and make sure that the distance between the mics for each group vs the distance of the mic to their group observes 3:1, and midside the lot for ambient.
Assuming you have enough mics of course. Depends on what those 20 people are composed of. Percussion might demand more attention on its own, for example.
TonyS.
www.SoundCollab.com | www.risingstorm-music.com
I got very, very good results with just a stereo pair up to 50+ musicians...the room was nearly perfect and the best sounding position was 2-3m above the director.
Actually it does make sense to mic at the conductor. I mean, he coordinates it all so that it sounds good to him in that specific place, in terms of interaction between all the musicians; hes kind of a living click and fader (velocity control, whatever 
) for everyone thats playing, after a fashion, it probably all meshes together best there, rather than force-fitting it later from seperate positions. Or at least that may well have the best result/simplicity ratio
) for everyone thats playing, after a fashion, it probably all meshes together best there, rather than force-fitting it later from seperate positions. Or at least that may well have the best result/simplicity ratio
- May 9, 2006
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I got very, very good results with just a stereo pair up to 50+ musicians...the room was nearly perfect and the best sounding position was 2-3m above the director.
What a beautiful place.
THe thing is, the recording will be on the place I work on, so ..20 people on a 7x4.5m room..I don't know how it will handle so much sound pressure.
TonyS.
www.SoundCollab.com | www.risingstorm-music.com
Yeah it is!!! And sounds like heaven!
A Orchestra in this "little" place might be difficult, do you know what they will play?
It will make a difference if they play He is a pirate or some ppp-stuff. Maybe you could work with some mobile absorbers?
Most common way to mic an orchestra would be the decca tree, wouldn't it? Is the room is good sounding, i would guess the blumlein approach would be cool also
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Wow, such a small room? That's pretty unusual afaik, a nice concert hall / church with lots of reverb and ambience is crucial to the sound of an orchestra - at least that's what I learnt. On the other hand we have 2011, there are some pretty good reverbs and impulse responses on the market.
If you can, can you please post some samples after you're done? I find this topic very interesting
If you can, can you please post some samples after you're done? I find this topic very interesting
Use the KM184s in an ORTF configuration at least 5-6 ft high. As far as distance from the orchestra goes, that really depends how the room and stereo image sound. If there are soloists, spot mic them if you can. If you needed to, you could probably use the 414 as an omni ambient mic near the back of the room. Could also use it near the back of the orchestra too to keep the back of the orchestra from sounding too distant. If there are any brass soloists, use the Royer on em.
MortenDK
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- Dec 3, 2007
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I would start with the KM184 as an ORTF, dont know what the height of the ceiling is, but if its low than in the middle between the conductors head and the ceiling, if its high(10 meters!?) then a good 3 meters above the conducters head. Than I wound use the AT40s for spot mics on violins 1st and 2nd, the 414 for Violas, Royer for cellos and u87 for bass. And the TLM149 for wood and brass if there is any.
That would be my starting point, I would probaly swap around with the mics for violas, cellos and bass to get the right balance.
Have fun! :Spin:
*Edit*
As im at work now I´ll take a few pictures with my phone of the setup we have this week, as its a small 14 piece all tho no strings, only wood and brass and a little rythm section with Drums, acc and bass. But it will give you a picture of how we do it here at the Danish Radio concert hall.
Here the main set. Its DPA 4011 in ORTF than DPA4006 in AB and the wider AB is Schoeps.
This was just to show the height of the main set over the conductor. Plus theres a much wider AC set of 4006 that I high lighted in this and the next picture as well thats used for more wideness an ambience.
Again main set and wide AC
The last picture is of the Decca Tree. Its not in use as there are no strings on this production. But if it was a full scale Orcestra setup the Decca tree combined with the main set and wide AC would be what makes up the core sound of the orcestra. And shit load of spot mic from the ceiling would be used for inhancing different part in the music, for example violas if they are featured in the score.
I know this a big hall and this setup might not hold up and a smaller studio. But maybe it can help in some way.
That would be my starting point, I would probaly swap around with the mics for violas, cellos and bass to get the right balance.
Have fun! :Spin:
*Edit*
As im at work now I´ll take a few pictures with my phone of the setup we have this week, as its a small 14 piece all tho no strings, only wood and brass and a little rythm section with Drums, acc and bass. But it will give you a picture of how we do it here at the Danish Radio concert hall.
Here the main set. Its DPA 4011 in ORTF than DPA4006 in AB and the wider AB is Schoeps.
This was just to show the height of the main set over the conductor. Plus theres a much wider AC set of 4006 that I high lighted in this and the next picture as well thats used for more wideness an ambience.
Again main set and wide AC
The last picture is of the Decca Tree. Its not in use as there are no strings on this production. But if it was a full scale Orcestra setup the Decca tree combined with the main set and wide AC would be what makes up the core sound of the orcestra. And shit load of spot mic from the ceiling would be used for inhancing different part in the music, for example violas if they are featured in the score.
I know this a big hall and this setup might not hold up and a smaller studio. But maybe it can help in some way.
- May 9, 2006
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Well, some of the tracking was today. My boss took some pics, but I won't be able to get'em 'til tomorrow. ANyway...
My boss is great, he didn't give me any details at all of what the client wanted. 1 hour before tracking I discovered there would be drums, and 5 minutes before tracking I found out my boss was mistaken on how they wanted do track, so I had to undo the drum setup in a hurry.
Anyway...the orchestra was a 'youth' orchestra from a local church. 2 cellos, around 10 violins, 3 flutes and 3 clarinets, a trombone, keyboards, bass (yes, electric bass) and drums. Man, the drums made everything SO messy, that even things that were close mic'ed were full of drums leakage. The woodwinds, brass, drummer, bass players were all good, but the violin girls (between age 13 and 18) were mostly terrible. We did around 10-15 takes of the same song, the girls were looking really bored, and so I talked to the conductor to give 'em some more practice and call it a day.
I used the KM184s in ORTF above the conductor's head (I will bring them down a bit to see if it catches more strings and less drums), the AKG C414 on the left 1st violins and the TLM149 on the right 1st and 2nd violins. The U87 on the main cello. The Royer on the Clarinets and the AT4060 on the flutes. Trombone got the Shure Beta 57, and drums got that cool Audio Tecnhinca kick mic (forgot the model...something like AE2500 or something) and a pair of PG81s we had lying around as overheads, Glynn Johns style. Snare got a SM57. It was far from perfect, and I think we can improve that on the next session.
Tomorrow I'll drop some pics in here.
My boss is great, he didn't give me any details at all of what the client wanted. 1 hour before tracking I discovered there would be drums, and 5 minutes before tracking I found out my boss was mistaken on how they wanted do track, so I had to undo the drum setup in a hurry.
Anyway...the orchestra was a 'youth' orchestra from a local church. 2 cellos, around 10 violins, 3 flutes and 3 clarinets, a trombone, keyboards, bass (yes, electric bass) and drums. Man, the drums made everything SO messy, that even things that were close mic'ed were full of drums leakage. The woodwinds, brass, drummer, bass players were all good, but the violin girls (between age 13 and 18) were mostly terrible. We did around 10-15 takes of the same song, the girls were looking really bored, and so I talked to the conductor to give 'em some more practice and call it a day.
I used the KM184s in ORTF above the conductor's head (I will bring them down a bit to see if it catches more strings and less drums), the AKG C414 on the left 1st violins and the TLM149 on the right 1st and 2nd violins. The U87 on the main cello. The Royer on the Clarinets and the AT4060 on the flutes. Trombone got the Shure Beta 57, and drums got that cool Audio Tecnhinca kick mic (forgot the model...something like AE2500 or something) and a pair of PG81s we had lying around as overheads, Glynn Johns style. Snare got a SM57. It was far from perfect, and I think we can improve that on the next session.
Tomorrow I'll drop some pics in here.
