Recording at my school's studio

[Ollie_H]

I feel a bit silly bothering all you clearly very talented producers for advice on recording a school band, but if it's not too much bother I'd really appreciate some help

We're all just preparing to record and so far we've been talked through how they usually record stuff then we had a go. They use one mic on the bass drum (looks like a D 112?) positioned outside the front skin, one mic on the snare (looks like a C 451 maybe or something similar) and two overhead mics (don't know what they are ).

I've been lurking here for a while, and i read in that guide to recording drums sticky about the bass drum and snare, and that seems fine, but just two mics for everything else? Whats the best way of doing that? They positioned them pretty close together, over the center of the kit, both pointing down to the same point in the middle, one for the left and one for the right... Dont you get problems when theyre too close together or something? or not?

We also had a go at recording the kit quickly, we gated the bass track and snare track, but it seemed to take out a lot of it, like the attack sounded different and it cut out very quickly.. Is that whats meant to happen? When we played it back with the overheads it sounded alright though. We then compressed the 3 tracks: the bass drum, the snare and the stereo overhead channel.

What are the main differences and things to be aware of when recording metal as opposed to what they'll be used to recording (i guess indie type stuff and rock)?

Thanks

 

[Charlie E.]

I don't like the no tom mics approach
Yes you can get phase issues when placing the overheads...

Regarding the gating I wouldn't do it. I assume you meant you gated while tracking? If they're cutting off too quickly then try adjusting the release. You could also compensate by adding reverb but I'd do gating after tracking.
These days it's not necessary to do that while recording. It's so easy to slice things up, sample replace or add post processing and if you happen to change your mind about what you want to do you want to have your options open.

 

[Ollie_H]

No we gated afterwards in cubase, I was just wondering if they were meant to sound a little odd by themselves when gated and then sound right when the overheads are also playing, or whether they should be sounding right by themselves.

How do you place the overheads to avoid phase issues? Trial and error? I read somewhere about a 3:1 rule? I'm going to try and find out if they have any more mics that we could use on the toms. Would a mic on each of the drums and then the two overheads be a decent set up?

Thanks

 

[ahjteam]

What are the main differences and things to be aware of when recording metal as opposed to what they'll be used to recording (i guess indie type stuff and rock)?

Lets break your post apart and lets see

They use one mic on the bass drum (looks like a D 112?) positioned outside the front skin

Metal: 1-3 mics (inside, at hole, subkick) + trigger. Also D112 isn't very suitable for metal, Audix D6 and Shure Beta52 are more common mics, also for example Andy Sneap uses PZM (Shure Beta91) + Subkick combo.

one mic on the snare (looks like a C 451 maybe or something similar)

Metal: Shure SM57 or Audix i5 on top and something on the bottom + trigger. Also toms get miced (but only from the top, Shure SM57 and Sennheiser MD421 are very common) and triggered.

two overhead mics (don't know what they are )

Metal: Usually a lot of close miced cymbals (including hihat, ride and china), but depends much on the producer, many also use overheads (XY or ORTF method) and room/ambience mics (AB or mono methods).

...and the triggers are optional on the drums, but still used often.

 

[Ollie_H]

Thank you, that's very helpful!

 

[Morgan C]

If you're gate is sounding weird and knocking off the attack...
If its got an 'attack' knob, set that to 0ms.
If its got a lookahead, set that to like 3-5ms.

Then adjust the hold/release/threshold til it sounds fairly natural. With more bleed you're going to have to set the release/hold a lot shorter.

Post a list of the mics you've got access to and maybe we can help you choose.

I disagree about needing 3 mics on the kick though.. if you've got a subkick, that and something else is good but I can't see the use for a 3rd mic, that's just begging for phase issues, etc.

If the drummer is really inconsistent with his feet and you know you're going to have to sample replace, might be best just to trigger straight away (or put a mic in where it picks up the most attack so is easiest to trigger off). When I record myself, my kicks are really consistent volume-wise, so no sample replacement is needed.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ds/547454-drums-100-real-snare-finally-d.html
was the latest thing I did, with no compression or samples needed on the kick.

but I know that if you're doing fast double bass your volume is going to drop no matter how good you are.. so it really depends on the genre.

Best situation would be:
2 kick mics (subkick and hole: d6, e902, beta91/sm91)
2 snare mics (i5/57 on top, 57 on bot)
1 tom mic each
2 ohs (or close mic each cymbal and use the room mics as the basis of your sound.. but maybe not for your first recording).
1 or 2 room mics (i prefer 1 mono room mic).

 

[BLUElightCory]

The overhead setup you guys were using (XY) is probably the best setup to use to avoid phasing issues between the two overhead mics.

 

[Line Level Recordings]

- for kick drums, some people mic the beater head at a certain position ( oil up your foot pedals, or your gunna get some "squeeky zepplin" happenin
- for the snare get a 57 or any mic that has abit more low end and blend that low sounding snare with trigger snare that has a nice high end that goes with the mic'd snare nicely
- toms, have them mic'd just in case, and if your not feelin em, trigger them ( this forum has alot of hidden treasure of hidden samples )
- for overheads, you could do the XY thing, but you wont get your stereo image as wide as you can get it to. google some pics of some overhead placement. or even search here.
theres a great search option on top of this page.

if you need samples, i could possibly give you some
and for triggering software
google up drumagog
or aptrigga

their both very good.

best of luck!

 

[Ollie_H]

Okay I found out exactly what the mics are:
AKG D-112
AKG C 451 B
2 x Beyerdynamic M 201
Shure SM58
Shure SM57
2 x Behringer B2 Pro

 

[Line Level Recordings]

d112?
...your not recording farts, are you ?

 

[arv_foh]

Okay I found out exactly what the mics are:
AKG D-112
AKG C 451 B
2 x Beyerdynamic M 201
Shure SM58
Shure SM57
2 x Behringer B2 Pro

That's all you have access to? Get a set of triggers just in case you can't get a good mic tone from those mics

 

[Ollie_H]

Yep, that's all the mics sadly.. If anyone has any suggestions with what to do with them that would be nice, I know it's probably not the best setup but its all they have :/ I'll see if they have some triggers, I'm going there tonight. Also which mic should we use for vocals? SM58? or 57? And any tips for recording them? For guitars I think we're going to DI them and use vst amps, probably the same with the bass, as they don't seem to have any decent amps (100W Marshall MG... :/) My bandmate's ordered a 6505+ combo but that won't be here for a while. Thanks

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

What kind of fucking school sports that kind of mic closet?

 

[mick thompson]

the list is fine, just trigger the fuck out of the kick n toms (and snare if its a piece of shit) - have you looked into any products like toontrack's drum apps? it might be what you need if your not feeling too comfortable with the microphones - http://www.toontrack.com/