Recording DI's for ampsim/reamping, either too hot or too cold.

[Lowberg]

Hey guys! I need some DI help/advice.

I am getting ready to record guitars for my band's album next week, and I'm planning on using an amp simulator or re-amping DI's at a later point.

I was reading the "How Hard to hit the strings" thread and I read that someone was having the same issue as me, their DI's being too hot or cold

First off:
The guitars we are using for tracking have EMG pickups and Duncan Blackout pickups. They are too hot to use with my UX2's instrument input (they clip it on hard hits) so I'm using the PAD input.

I have to boost the signal gain a bit with the PAD input, then use the 18+db boost option an lower the master output fader on podfarm. I played full chords as hard and snappy as I could while lowering the output fader in podfarm to make sure it wont clip the signal.

The problem is that the DI has such a wide range of spikes, I will get huge spikes every once in a while. By lowering the gain so that my huge occasional spikes don't clip, all my "normal" playing is a lot lot less quiet or cool.

This didn't seem like that big of an issue to me at first, but when I use an amp sim like Nick Crow 8505, I cant get as much gain as I'd like.

Its like I have to run a usually weak signal to the amp to avoid the occasional big spike from clipping in the DI.

Someone said Normalizing the DI? Just seems like a bad idea to alter the DI, then its not really like a DI?

If anybody is having the same issue or has some advice, please let me know!

 

[Damphire]

Hey, glad my thread helped you out a little

In my DI process I'm using Seymour Duncan's Custom Custom pups and my input signal is kind of low. I "fix" that making the signal hotter with a Tube Screamer sim I found on this forum, then apply a noise gate to eliminate the hiss, and then into the SoloC or 8505. You can use the SoloC sim as a boost too. I'm not getting "spiky" signals so I cannot help you with that, but maybe you can compress/limit the signal before the preamp sim.

 

[Metaltastic]

Can't say I understood everything in your post Alex cuz I just take such a dim view of Toneports and their stupid latency and DI level issues, but I will say that some clipping sounds in DI's with active pickups at 9v are normal, so if it's only the sound of clipping that's giving you pause, I wouldn't worry! Otherwise, if you set it all up so that the loudest peaks (when beating the fuck out of the low strings and doing diesel palm mute chugs and stuff) peak at around -4 dB, that should be all you need; it always works for me!

 

[Lowberg]

Here's what I mean Marcus,


This is a screen shot of my DI

Its a palm muted galloping riff, and the huge spike is an un-muted powerchord I hit pretty hard

You can see it it averages around -9 to -5 db but some as low as -14db and then all the sudden on the open power chord it spikes and clips.

The other large spike is the same thing, only it doesn't seem to jump as high.

So like If I adjust my input gain for the DI so that NOTHING, not even that random huge spike clips, then the signal for the other stuff is going to be even lower!

I feel like real amps and real guitar signals (not DIs) wouldn't have this problem because its not digital clipping? Kind of some extra headroom?


And I'm running the EMGs at 18v mod so it shouldn't the pickup itself clipping.

 

[Metaltastic]

Well huge amounts of dynamics are normal for DI tracks dude, bear in mind you're only capturing what the amp would see, so it shouldn't be an issue when re-amping if you turn it down so the peaks aren't clipping! The most you might need to do is raise the fader on the track with the DI when re-amping, but even that shouldn't be necessary! (or maybe just 1-3 dB)

 

[devouredremains]

This didn't seem like that big of an issue to me at first, but when I use an amp sim like Nick Crow 8505, I cant get as much gain as I'd like.

FWIW Nick Crow's 8505 doesn't have half the gain that an actual 6505 has on tap. I'm always up around 8 on the gain knob with a healthy DI and tubescreamer pushing the front end. Great sim regardless though.

 

[Lowberg]

FWIW Nick Crow's 8505 doesn't have half the gain that an actual 6505 has on tap. I'm always up around 8 on the gain knob with a healthy DI and tubescreamer pushing the front end. Great sim regardless though.

Alright maybe that was throwing me off a bit, thanks man!

 

[devouredremains]

Anytime dude.

 

[ahjteam]

I usually compress the bass DI already when tracking, gives me a nice and solid bass tone. Here is a semicheap solution for ya:

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=57

 

[Sacha]

Our DI tracks for the last album had some clipping and you couldn't hear it at all in the reamped tracks. Probably not ideal but hey it worked so fuck it!

 

[Metaltastic]

I usually compress the bass DI already when tracking, gives me a nice and solid bass tone. Here is a semicheap solution for ya:

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=57

I would never wanna compress guitar DI's though, not when they're gonna be going into a high-gain amp!

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Helpfull answers on this... Thanks a lot.

 

[Trevoire520]

Just record the DI's so they're not clipping and bring up the level later with a tubescreamer if you need to. Simples!

 

[ahjteam]

I would never wanna compress guitar DI's though, not when they're gonna be going into a high-gain amp!

umm... distortion creates compression too, you use a tubescreamer don't you? :Smokedev:

But bass is a different beast all together from guitar. But if you are concerned that it might affect the basstone negatively, you can test it by using two di boxes to test it, so the signal chain would be:

BASS -> DI 1 in
DI 1 xlr out -> preamp -> interface
DI 1 thru -> DI 2 in
DI 2 xlr out -> preamp + compressor -> interface
DI 2 thru -> bass amplifier -> mic -> preamp

 

[beechstudio]

I would suggest lightly compressing the DI as long as your not killing the transients you're Ok. You will need a compressor that has adjustable attack and release times.An RNC will do fine. Check out Nevermore's studio video with Andy recording "This Godless Endeavour" on youtube. The very last scene where they're tracking rythym gtrs there's an RNC on the desk. I don't know for sure but it looks like he's tracking through it.

 

[Metaltastic]

umm... distortion creates compression too, you use a tubescreamer don't you? :Smokedev:

Yes, but with the drive at 8:30, so there's practically zero distortion/compression

 

[006]

umm... distortion creates compression too, you use a tubescreamer don't you? :Smokedev:

Yes.

I also let a guitar amp and TS do the compressing. Like normal. Compression on guitar signals before amps, other than a TS or similar, sound like balls. YMMV, of course.

 

[devouredremains]

Yes.

I also let a guitar amp and TS do the compressing. Like normal. Compression on guitar signals before amps, other than a TS or similar, sound like balls. YMMV, of course.

I agree but with one exception, certain types of clean tones.

 

[CarlBlomqvist]

Well huge amounts of dynamics are normal for DI tracks dude, bear in mind you're only capturing what the amp would see, so it shouldn't be an issue when re-amping if you turn it down so the peaks aren't clipping! The most you might need to do is raise the fader on the track with the DI when re-amping, but even that shouldn't be necessary! (or maybe just 1-3 dB)

+1

I have the same "problem" as you do, and the guitartones that Marcus reamped for me worked wonders. Listen to my myspace link and hear for yourself.

 

[Metaltastic]

Thanks dude! And yeah, you're DI's were perfect, good level and no clipping, couldn't ask for anything more!