Recording Drum Suggestions

[dawnofadreamx97]

Whats up guys, Been a reader here for a while. Much Respect to everyone here, Especially Andy and James, Love your work and hope to work with you cats some day! I've learned some extremly valuable things here, so thanks.. very much in advance...

Basically my band is getting record to record our album and I wanted to hear some Opinions as far as drum overheads go. I've read through quite a few topics and wanted to go a bit further. We're using 421's on the toms, beta 52's on the kicks, sm57 on snare top, and beta 57 on snare bottom and probably 2 room mics , and a vintage shure ribbon mic that we are using as a center mic... question is....

If you had to chose between Sm81s and AKG 414's as overheads, what would you go with ? Im liking the seperation on the 414's but the sm81s seem to be a little harsh for harder hitting at times....

another question I wanted to ask is do most bands record with 2 kick drums or is 1 kick with a double pedal usually standard for studio work? I use two kicks and really like the feel of it...

Thanks again for any advice or tips, I really appreciate it.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Go with whatever you think sounds better on the overheads.

As for kick drums, 2 will definitely feel better. Just make sure you're tuned the same and have the same type of heads on them. (I know, sound obvious, but you'd be surprised). Drumagog can be a big help with kicks, as well.

-0z-

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

Cool , Thaks for the reply... The kicks and all the drums will be reheaded Im going to be using Aquarians Equivalent to the Remo power stroke 3 kick head, (aquarian force 1 batter) with danmar wood beaters and A danmar mylar kick patch. TONS Of attack, especially with the Yamaha Oak Customs im using, they really sound massive....Drumagog is like sound replacer right ?

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Yeah. It's my "fix the fucked up sound" tool. You might want to try the falam slam pad, as well as several beater types. Don't get your heart set on something until you've heard it thru the monitors. Also, make sure you've got some REAL feather pillows for the kicks. Foam rubber dampers suck harder than Jenna Jameson.

BTW, you really should read this:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217656

-0z-

 

[madbutcher]

off the top of my head, I would pick the 414's.......

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

Yeah. It's my "fix the fucked up sound" tool. You might want to try the falam slam pad, as well as several beater types. Don't get your heart set on something until you've heard it thru the monitors. Also, make sure you've got some REAL feather pillows for the kicks. Foam rubber dampers suck harder than Jenna Jameson.

BTW, you really should read this:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217656

-0z-

Cool , i want to really go with a natural but powerful drum tone, we narrowed down that we are going to use probably 3 different snares, 7x14 yamaha maple custom BEEFY! 5x14 yamaha oak custom, and a Steel Pearl Sensitone snare that sounds really cool for a couple things... And Your thread has been helpful ! ive been reading the passed weeks , thanks for the help man! Cheers

take a listen to the oaks in these two clips, this was recorded on a Boss Br1600 , with beta 52s in the kicks, 57 on the snare, 57 on floor tom , beta 57 group micing 2 rack toms, and a stereo pair of Mxl 2001 Cheapie overhead condensors, this is in our rehearsal room and was meant as a test, nothing fancy with the playing or drum mix just noodling for some tones, i've since changed my snare sound to a bit lower of a tuning that has more body to it.... We're recording the album on protools HD...

http://www.sicksdeep.com/oakcustomclip.mp3
http://www.sicksdeep.com/drumcheck.mp3

ps - we compared the 414's to the sm81s tonight , Its pretty close...the 414's seem to have a more natural and smooth midrange thing going on, I think there is more seperation in the stereo field with the 414s , but the 81s are really crispy... we may even end up going back and forth on different tunes, not sure yet......Im going to throw some clips up to let you hear and compare....

 

[SPLASTiK]

If you have really really really tall mic stands/ceiling and the inputs you could always use the 414's as Overheads then put the SM81's XY above the drummer like I don't know, 20 feet. I've heard of some big name engineers doing that.

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

Cool , I think we may be able to squeeze enough inputs...the ceilings are not that high but the room is acoustically treated very well. We have 16 inputs to work with but im going to have a click track and scratch guitar so probably 14 total.

Lets see, I have..

4) Sennheiser 421's on the toms
2) Shure Beta 52's on the kicks
1) Shure Sm57 on snare top
1) Shure Beta 57 snare bottom
1) Shure Vintage Ribbon Mic Center mic
1) Room Mic not sure what we are going to be using here just yet

Which Leaves me 4 inputs left over, for the 2 pairs of overheads, I think it could work... Im gonna try that and see how it goes.... Thanks!

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

Also what are general opinions on Mixing the kit - Drummers Perspective rather than audience perspective?

 

[deathtotaliban]

As far as mixing, i find that the hardest part would be getting the oh's right and the snare right, toms are by far the easiest partly because they arent hit that often. Kick is fairly easy if u sample it but if u want a natural punchy sound i usually boost anywere from 2k all the way to 4k and sometimes more or less to taste and i usually roll of around 30. just some basics. there are some great threads on here and on colin from viles forum.... especially this thread.... http://www.smnnews.com/board/showthread.php?t=73970. Well thats just a lil advice.

Jordan

 

[Razorjack]

Also what are general opinions on Mixing the kit - Drummers Perspective rather than audience perspective?

I usually to mix from the drummers perspective, but my recent mixes have been audience perspective. It's all down to personal taste.

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

I usually to mix from the drummers perspective, but my recent mixes have been audience perspective. It's all down to personal taste.

awsome Im doing drummers perspective then!

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

What do you guys Suggest for Room Mics ? I was just discussing making an investment into some Josephens c4s or c6's possibly.... and moving the 414s as room mics maybe ? but if we stay with the 414/ 81's what would you suggest for room mics ?

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Boosting EQ sucks, you'll fuck up your phase. Subtract the frequencies you don't like, then turn up the fader.

I usually mix from the audience perspective, but that's more of a personal taste thing.

 

[prowlergrig]

Also what are general opinions on Mixing the kit - Drummers Perspective rather than audience perspective?

my personal choice, from a listener's point of view: definitely drummer's perspective, and i'll tell you why:

when i listen to music (especially with headphones), i picture myself surrounded by the instruments. vocals are close to the centre (my head), guitars left and right and the drums hold the rear. that's why it's very confusing and unnatural to have the hihat on the right, etc. i'd have to picture myself watching a performance of the band from a distance, which is hard to do with headphones, or when standing close to monitors.

 

[~BURNY~]

I always ask the drummer about perspective. I don't care much. When listening to music, I usually picture the band like It is on stage. This is a very subjective matter, so I think It should always be the drummer's choice.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I personnaly perfer the drummer's perspective because it allows me do air drums, haha But if it's from the audience perspective, I switch the headphones, so it's really not a problem anyway...

 

[dawnofadreamx97]

Good stuff... Now on to the next Concerns, what room mics to use, and Setting and selecting a good drum reverb. The tracking room is small , but fairly dead sounding so I dont think the room mics alone will be enough. Im thinking just a small room reverb 1.0 - 1.6 with a tit bit of predelay will do it and really waken up everything in the mix.....