Recording ONLY Cymbals for our debut record..! Opinions?

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

Hello guys. We will enter the studio in about 2-3 months, and a local engineer told us about the possibility to actually record ONLY the cymbals of a real drumkit, and blending the final stereo track with a Vst Instrument (like Superior Drummer.)

In other words, our drummer enters the studio, and plays on a partially "muted" set (only cymbals and hi-hat are not muted). The engineer places 2 Overhead mics to capture those cymbals (or even spot extra mics)and then uses a Vst Instr for the kick/snare/toms etc with the vst OHs muted. In theory, the final result will be a drum sound with natural cymbals.

I would not give a chance to this opinion, but:

1)We don't have a really big budget and this process would save us 50% of the time to record and edit everything!
2)I have noticed that OH tracks in Metal are brutally high-passed, most of the times. The typical engineer will leave nothing but cymbals! So, we can consider this method as manual high-passing!
3)Our drummer is a new member and will probably struggle with time changes/signatures in some points of the songs! This will raise the total cost even more, considering there are 10 songs!

So.. Any opinions? Would this method actually work? Have you ever tried it? There is always the alternative to use full midi drums, or wait until we have money and our drummer gets fully prepared to enter the studio, but this solution will REALLY delay the whole procedure.

Cheers!

 

[paladin shredder]

I did this with my band own band, and the results so far are pretty damn good! We used an e-kit for kick and toms, with a real snare (mic'd and triggered) and real cymbals. It works excellent for our style (melodic death metal), but It's definitely not for everyone.

Make sure you mute the toms and kick really good if you are using an acoustic kit thats triggered. Sometimes on a tom fill you can hear some clicks in the overhead from the e-kit, but they are very small little transients that are very easy to edit out. Even still, this is imo easier to edit than real toms in the overheads if they are off time. You do get the advantage of being able to edit the kit ungrouped for the most part.

 

[paladin shredder]

Also, the best thing is it's a BIG time saver! Especially if you pan on using samples on the kit anyways.

 

[Ermz]

e-kit + real cymbals is a total winner for metal bands on a budget. You get just about everything you need from both styles of recording, without the drawbacks of either.

 

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

Wow, that's good news! Thank you both (Ermz, BIG fun of your stuff, dude!)

Never thought to use a snare as well, makes perfect sense, because it is kinda audible in the OHs of most mixes! But can i also mute it? As for the rest of the kit, what about removing the beater of the kick to minimize bleeding? We can also leave 1-2 heavily muted toms so that our drummer has a more realistic feel when playing.

We play death/thrash metal with oriental passages.

Oh, and Dear Paladin shredder, if you could send me a rough/final mix, (when it's ready, and of course if you want!), to actually hear what it sounds like, we would really appreciate it!

 

[JGolden]

I do something similar when bands are short on time. I just program the shells instead of having them play on an e-kit, but it's kind of the same premise. If you plan on doing heavy sample replacement I see no major disadvantage, and you get really clean cymbal tracks. Here's a track I did with this method.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1868665/Maelstrom_Master.wav

 

[paladin shredder]

Here's a song we just finished. There's a bit of bottom snare mic at the beginning to make the fill more natural sounding, but other than thats its mostly sampled. I'm not 100% satisfied with this mix, but hopefully this should help get you an idea at least!

 

[Vaggelis_Revolted]

Thank you, guys, those two clips are more than enough to persuade me! (Btw, JGolden the mix is SICK, and paladin i get the idea and i especially love the "realistic" sound of the hihat, as well as many other elements)

By the way, do you guys drag the "real" overhead tracks some msec earlier, to be in phase with the MIDI "perfectly timed" hits? Or you treat everything as usual?
Also, as i asked earlier, can we mute the snare as well to save even more time?

 

[JGolden]

Thanks man! I just beat detective the overhead tracks and get it all locked in. Nothing too fancy.

 

[heshian46]

I did this with my bands EP. Programmed the kick snare and toms, then dub'd the cymbals over. Used a stereo pair of 414's and spot miced each cymbal.

Such an awesome method for metal productions because (like mentioned above) editing is soo much quicker, and theres no bleed!

 

[Scott C.]

yeah man should sound great. but I would honestly have him just play the cymbals and not hit the muted drums. you might hear ticks in the overheads. and then that would mean you would still have to edit everything to the grid so it's on time with the midi. ( not saving you studio time) if you do just the cymbals it can be edited slightly looser and give it a more human feel. and also be easier/faster to edit.
it might feel weird for him at first but after a couple warm up passes he should get in the groove. once he gets the hang of it, tracking will go quick .

 

[Sloan]

i have read that queens of the stoneage track cymbals separate.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Annihilator did this on a couple albums back in the day, its not really anything new and seems to work especially with certain budget constraints

 

[Wohma]

e-kit + real cymbals is a total winner for metal bands on a budget. You get just about everything you need from both styles of recording, without the drawbacks of either.

+1

 

[mva801]

I prefer having the drummer just not play the kicks. This is where most drummers start to fail and make everything hard to edit. I would say mic up the kit like normal, just don't put on the kick pedals. That way if he wants to step on something its just carpet. The snare/ toms/ OH tracks are MUCH easier to edit without the kicks. And programming just the kicks is pretty quick.

I've had better luck with that than trying to record just cymbals.

And I know we can't all play like Shannon Lucas, but maybe drummers could just learn to play their shit and practice for once.

 

[JeffTD]

I've programmed drums for two bands that have recorded real cymbals - both times it's worked out great. You just have to make sure the cymbals are edited well and program the drums realistically (AKA not having kicks at 127 for every hit), and then mix like a normal kit.

 

[heshian46]

yeah man should sound great. but I would honestly have him just play the cymbals and not hit the muted drums. you might hear ticks in the overheads. and then that would mean you would still have to edit everything to the grid so it's on time with the midi. ( not saving you studio time) if you do just the cymbals it can be edited slightly looser and give it a more human feel. and also be easier/faster to edit.
it might feel weird for him at first but after a couple warm up passes he should get in the groove. once he gets the hang of it, tracking will go quick .

Yes, definitely do not have him hit muted drums. Just set up cymbals, and maybe a practice snare pad with a folded towel on top for him to keep time on the other hand with (that what I do).

You'll be fucking with trying to edit out muted tom "chicks" for days.