Reference mixing

[setyouranchor]

Never really done this before, I just go with what I think sounds good. I sometimes refer back to old mixes and see what I did to get that sound but thats about it.

When you guys are using other bands/songs for reference mixing, how do you go about it?

Do you just listen and try and match? e.g Pick out the snare and work around it kinda thing? Use any plugs for frequency analyses (Match EQ)?

Is it even a good idea to always reference your mixes to other peoples work?! I can understand it being good sometimes if your strugging or the band want a certain sound. Anyway, I'm blabbing

Discuss

 

[Emdprodukt]

reference is necessary for me. After a few hours of mixing I need some direction. I take my favourite recordings and check them for specific things: how loud is the bass, how thick/thin are the guitars, how clean is the mix, too much click/lowend in the kickdrum, how much reverb, how loud are the toms, how much pumping is going on and so on.. No record will sound like the other, so reference doesn't mean you're copying someone elses mix. It just let's you know if your heading in the right direction with your mix. It can get depressing when referencing to high-end mixes though. I think it's important to go for your own sound but just as I said: After a few hours of work you can lose your sense for what you're doing. That's of course a matter of how good you know your setup, too. I'm still learning mine so I'm referencing as much as possible. For singletrack referencing you can use those rockband tracks that got released. They're not high quality but they can give you an idea.

 

[setyouranchor]

Thanks for your 2 cents dude

I know what you mean about being depressed about listening to high-end recordings : / just seems like "GAHHH FUCK WHY DOESNT MY MIX SOUND LIKE THIS, WHAT CAN I DO?!"

Also, where can I get hold of these rock band singletracks?

 

[Emdprodukt]

You have to google them because I wont post links to copyrighted material. They're called mogg-files I think. You have to use Audacity to open them. Have fun

 

[Harry Hughes]

David Bendeth has said he likes to reference other albums.
If it works for the top pros in the business, it can work for anyone.
The point shouldn't really about be about trying to match stuff though.
References provide a good ballpark to aim for, and then you set about creating your own unique mix.
There's plenty to learn from the big guys like Andy Wallace, Bendeth, CLA, Bergstrand, Bogren, Staub etc etc, so get listening!

 

[Ermz]

When it's rock I always listen to about 2 hours of Staub mixes before I start mixing just to soak in all the vibe and get my mind on the right track. Then during the mix itself I'll refer back and forth to his best work just to make sure the balances are right. Sometimes I'll throw AW and CLA in there too if punch/fatness isn't the only element that counts.

Similar thing with metal and 'Stabbing the Drama' and 'The Way of All Flesh'. I listen to one of these usually the whole way through to get my ears calibrated and understanding the best instrument balances for the genre.

 

[setyouranchor]

Thanks a lot Harry and Ermz, appreciate it This forum as given me a lot over the last 6 months and really helped In more ways than just improving my production skills... Anyway

When your listening to references mixes, what sort of things are you paying attention to?
I'm not asking for a list of hard answers and "this is what you NEED to listen to" just need some general pointers and what artifacts in a mix you pay attention to etc

Also, recommendations for some awesome albums to feast my ears on for references? I know Chris Lord-Alge, Andy Wallace, Staub have been mentioned, but any stand out albums?

 

[Harry Hughes]

Thanks a lot Harry and Ermz, appreciate it This forum as given me a lot over the last 6 months and really helped In more ways than just improving my production skills... Anyway

When your listening to references mixes, what sort of things are you paying attention to?
I'm not asking for a list of hard answers and "this is what you NEED to listen to" just need some general pointers and what artifacts in a mix you pay attention to etc

Also, recommendations for some awesome albums to feast my ears on for references? I know Chris Lord-Alge, Andy Wallace, Staub have been mentioned, but any stand out albums?

Depends what you're looking for really.
Brand New Eyes by Paramore (CLA) has some amazing vocal production.
If you're looking for something with more up front guitars than that, the song Fight For all the Right Reasons from the Nickelback album "All the Right Reasons" sounds great. Only thing I don't dig about it is that the guitars are a little to edgy for me, and I prefer a slightly darker guitar tone like The Way of All Flesh or Stabbing the Drama (two must have albums for production references, and TWOAF is just fucking amazing musically too).
I know what you're thinking "Ugh god, Nickelback". Yes, it's as radio ready as it gets the and the lyrics of the song are absolutely cringe worthy (the song itself isn't so terrible, just really formulaic and radio ready hard rock), but just try to ignore the lyrics and listen, it's worth it.

The latest Alice in Chains album sounds amazing too

There was a thread on Wallace recently, so dig that up with a search and read, good stuff.
The upcoming Underoath album also looks set to be a seriously sexy mix, so keep an eye out for that (due for release early next month

 

[Ermz]

Also, recommendations for some awesome albums to feast my ears on for references? I know Chris Lord-Alge, Andy Wallace, Staub have been mentioned, but any stand out albums?

From Staub the two best I know are:

-Nickelback - All the Right Reasons
-Alice in Chains - Black Gives Way to Blue

From CLA:

-Paramore - Brand New Eyes
-Creed - Full Circle (vocals only)

From Ben Grosse:

-Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists (great reference on creating the donut hole for vocals)
-Breaking Benjamin - Phobia

From AW:

-Korn - The Untouchables


That's a good starter.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

-Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists (great reference on creating the donut hole for vocals)

Donut hole? :O

 

[Ermz]

^ Watch this: http://www.transaudiogroup.com/gml/gml-video-introduction/video-3-8200-demo.shtml

 

[Morgan C]

-Nickelback - All the Right Reasons

I finally 'got' this album today. Or the mix anyway. I was listening to the new Papa Roach by Bendeth and thought it was a really good mix, so I compared it to 'Follow You Home', and at first I thought Staub's mix was kinda weird, the guitars scooped and grainy and very bright, but I turned it down a bit and then suddenly, bam, Staub's mix was this amazing pumping dynamic mix, while Bendeth's was a flat boring pancake. I'm not a huge fan of the technical aspects of this mix, but as far as vibe and dynamics go, it fucking rules.

 

[drew_drummer]

^ Watch this: http://www.transaudiogroup.com/gml/gml-video-introduction/video-3-8200-demo.shtml

That was great!!!

 

[Harry Hughes]

I finally 'got' this album today. Or the mix anyway. I was listening to the new Papa Roach by Bendeth and thought it was a really good mix, so I compared it to 'Follow You Home', and at first I thought Staub's mix was kinda weird, the guitars scooped and grainy and very bright, but I turned it down a bit and then suddenly, bam, Staub's mix was this amazing pumping dynamic mix, while Bendeth's was a flat boring pancake. I'm not a huge fan of the technical aspects of this mix, but as far as vibe and dynamics go, it fucking rules.

Yeah, definitely agree here.
It took me a while to get what was so good about the Nickelback song, but it definitely makes many Bendeth mixes seem a bit flat and sterile in comparison.
Staub needs to do this treatment more often to cool bands.
I hate having to kinda force my way through Nickelback's lyrical content for the genius production.

 

[Mike Unstincs]

Didn't they work together on some records? I thought I read that somewhere. Bendeth as the producer, Staub as the engineer?

 

[Machinated]

curious to who he worked with staub on? im guessing that was in his ezrin days?

 

[Machinated]

also i know quite a few of the big guys A/B mixes regularly while they are mixing. but also some dont.

 

[setyouranchor]

Think I'm going to have to do this with the next band I track or the next song I mix

Cant find the rockband moggs anywhere! Found a list but I dont want every single one of those tracks

Anybody know of any multitracks/stems that have been released?

 

[Taurean]

For older stuff, don't forget Staub and Metallica's black album

 

[Teddyboy]

Load and Reload sound great too! He even made the "Some Kind Of Monster" single sound much better than the original mix