Role of digital clipping in mastering

[Ermz]

Hey guys,

I'm writing a research paper on the role of digital clipping in modern mastering... the uses, the needs, and essentially the state of the industry which has forced it to be a necessity.

I've read the 'getting your loudness?' thread and some of the insights there are fantastic... particularly those posted by Steven Slate.

I was wondering if anybody here would want to chip in with their views on clipping in mastering, or just the tools (GClip, Timeworks, clipping converters). Anything from your opinion on it being done at all, to how you think it sounds, to why you think the method even came into consideration.

Cheers!

 

[PhilR]

Any form of limiting involves signal clipping.

Many mastering engineers these days will simply run the signal into their converters hot and only use a limter for the 0db ceiling. You need pretty good converters to try this though like a Lynx aurora. I wouldn't want to try it on a MOTU 2408!

 

[Where She Wept]

I just finished my first full length recording and the band had 1000 cd's pressed. After that I started reading "Mastering Audio" by Bob Katz i realized i probably broke a record for the most digital distortion on a cd. Did i mention i Dithered to 16bit before i mastered it? it sounds ok but i had to shovel my jaw off the floor after i started reading that book.

 

[AudioPhile777]

I just finished my first full length recording and the band had 1000 cd's pressed. After that I started reading "Mastering Audio" by Bob Katz i realized i probably broke a record for the most digital distortion on a cd. Did i mention i Dithered to 16bit before i mastered it? it sounds ok but i had to shovel my jaw off the floor after i started reading that book.

Same thing happened to me. Same. Exact. Thing.

Only difference... it was my band.

ha... and maybe with the distortion thing... though I had the same thing happen to my guitars as with The Blackening album...

 

[Ermz]

Do any of you guys have written resources about what clippers like the GClip and Timeworks actually do, on a technical level, to create that sort of sound on quick peaks without the audible distortion?

 

[joeymusicguy]

clipping is also very useful in the tracking stage, as RMS levels can be raised by shaving off a few db's on the top and notching close to 0 with the volume (still preventing digital clip) via limiting

try it out sometime!

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

I like to have some analog clipping of a mic capsule for tom and snare sounds sometime. I don't use digital clipping too often, unless its for effect.

 

[broken81]

clipping is also very useful in the tracking stage, as RMS levels can be raised by shaving off a few db's on the top and notching close to 0 with the volume (still preventing digital clip) via limiting

try it out sometime!

Ok im confused about this, how exactly is this done does anyone know? I'M using protools if that makes any diffrance.....

 

[JBroll]

clipping is also very useful in the tracking stage, as RMS levels can be raised by shaving off a few db's on the top and notching close to 0 with the volume (still preventing digital clip) via limiting

try it out sometime!

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Jeff

 

[Torniojaws]

JBRoll: I guess he's operating on a 16-bit setup.

 

[Kazrog]

I like to master my stuff through dual Metal Zone pedals in a stereo pair going into the 1/8" input on my Sound Blaster card.

:Smokin:

I fucking hate digital clipping....

 

[SabretoothNZ]

I like to master my stuff through dual Metal Zone pedals in a stereo pair going into the 1/8" input on my Sound Blaster card.

:Smokin:

I fucking hate digital clipping....

hahaha I fell off my chair!

 

[abyssofdreams]

not sure if this could help you out but these two articles are a good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

 

[broken81]

Yea i was really confused about what Joey said, but he has done some great work and gets his masters very loud. So yea just thought maybe someone else would have a clue about what he was trying to say.

 

[Zombietakeover]

i think he just means he puts a limiter/clipper on the input track to whatever he is recording .....so he can turn the volume up without alot of worry from clipping ....so he doesnt lose anything....

 

[ahjteam]

i think he just means he puts a limiter/clipper on the input track to whatever he is recording .....so he can turn the volume up without alot of worry from clipping ....so he doesnt lose anything....

...except the dynamics?

 

[broken81]

i think he just means he puts a limiter/clipper on the input track to whatever he is recording .....so he can turn the volume up without alot of worry from clipping ....so he doesnt lose anything....

Yea i don't know that you can record through plugins on protools without like doing busing and stuff which would be a pain in the @#$!

What would be the difference of just using clipping (gclip) during mixing instead? Would it not still do the same thing but then your not stuck with it like you would be if you tracked through it.

 

[Zombietakeover]

im not sure you would have to talk to sturgis....he does things differently and his way but the outcome is great and better than most .
so who is anyone to question

 

[Ermz]

This is a bit of an old thread. I wrote the paper some time ago. My experiences in talking with most mastering engineers was that they veered away from it as much as possible, but if good converters were available, they'd happily let them red light here and there for some extra level. Many of them worried about the cumulative distortion from added processing on radio stations, or mp3 conversion. What sounds fairly nice and minimally clipped to the guy who exports the master, may end up a flat, lifeless pile of crud being blared at the ears of the listener.

Also, I would personally *NEVER* clip anything whilst tracking. That just sounds like one of the most destructive possible things you could do. It's the tracking stage... the very last thing that should be on one's mind is how loud the master will be. Clipping during mixing itself strikes me as a no-no too. If it works for you, fine, but I see digital clipping as a technique that should be applied as minimally as possible... not on every single freakin drum track! Shaving off a db of two off the peaks on a stereo master is cool if you can get away with it, but anything really drastic and you tend to be asking for trouble.

A spectrally and dynamically controlled mix is always the best thing to strive toward, rather than relying on techniques that add unpleasant distortion for the sake of a little extra level.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I try to avoid clipping anything but the snare, which I try to clip as much as safely possible before or during mastering, to try to prevent the limiting stage from eating it up and making it sound like crap . Other than that, I have found no need to intentionally clip anything else.