Royer r121 vs Beyer m160 on guitars

[Lasse Lammert]

I just got my Royer and am digging it, probably really good to blend with an sm57.
but damn, having compared these two now I gotta say the m160 sounds even better on guitar...less proximity effect (I had them both pretty close to the cab) and more high end...

but hear for yourselves...

I just threw the mics in the middle, no tweaking, positioning etc, just a quick rough test.

Bogner Box

Beyer m160

Royer R121

This one has slightly different amp settings, so you can't really compare them directly:
1073 on 300Ω, rear of the 121

 

[Lasse Lammert]

awesome, experimented a bit more: Setting the Preamp to 300Ω (advice from the manual is at least 1500&#937 takes care of the proximity effext.

I also prefer the sound of the back side, but I'm scared to damage the mic that way.

But DAMN, that 300Ω trick really did it, also overdriving the 1073 slightly and then taking the output down really helped

...will post another clip later

 

[Proggm]

Royer actually encourages you to put the microphone backwards. I always use it that way on cabs. Not using the impedance @300ohm though (Chandler TG2 preamp).

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Yeah, but be careful on cabs, the back side can't handle high SPL! (ays so in the manual)

 

[Mago]

yeah on that clip the beyer is a bit less boomy...but they sound pretty similar in those clips imo!

 

[Red Phoenix]

i like the m160. its more "in front" than the 121. It could really add some fundamental to sm57, which i always find a bit harsh and too weak in the lows when using it alone.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

The front (logo) side of the R-121 was designed to handle high SPL's. We don't recommend using the back side for high SPL applications like close up guitar cabinets.

from their page


And from the manual:

Cautionary Note:
It is important to note that the SPL handling capability of the rear side of the R-121 is lower than its front side. The R-121 is rated for 135dB SPL on its front side, but recordings on the rear side should not exceed 115dB SPL. When tracking loud sounds on the front side, the R-121’s offset-ribbon design allows ample space for rearward excursions of the ribbon element. However, tracking on the back side causes the ribbon to move forward towards the front side of the microphone, where the internal dampening screen is much closer to the ribbon element. Rear-side recordings of loud, low-frequency sounds, or vocalists with no pop filter, can drive the ribbon into the front dampening screen, creating noise and possibly damaging the ribbon element. Limit back side recording on your R-121 to lower SPL sound sources.

 

[colonel kurtz]

the m160 sounds even better on guitar...less proximity effect

do figure 8 mics exhibit proximity effect? if i remember right, it's only cardioid patterned mics that suffer from it...could be wrong, though

 

[Shinozoku]

They do. Usually to a lesser extent, but the designs of the 121 and the M160 are VERY different, despite both being ribbon mics. I believe the Royer has a longer (by far) ribbon than the M160, so there's more surface area to be hit with sound, therefore making it more susceptible to flex and become overloaded.

 

[egan.]

I always thought figure 8's had the worst proximity effect (as a group, mic to mic varies a lot)

 

[~BURNY~]

Only omni's have no proximity effect

 

[ArthurD]

I don't record with Royer so close to the cab. Thats not its sweet spot.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

depends, if you're blending it with a 57 or something, it's great!
if it's the only mic I'd back it off a little, yes

 

[colonel kurtz]

Only omni's have no proximity effect

gotcha

i knew omni's didn't...couldn't remember how it applied to figure 8, though

 

[MatrixClaw]

I dig both, but considering the Royer is twice the price of the Beyer, I think I'd go Beyer.

 

[C-Martin]

Nice you finally got one. I was sure you would like it since your so fond of the M160. The 121 is an awesome mic and it's allot more resistant than people think it is, don't be afraid to experiment with it. I sometimes stick a pop shield in front when i think the cab is pushing too much air towards it. Also don't forget the angle trick, angling it forward will reduce some of the stress on the ribbon. If you ever do damage the ribbon you get a first time free ribbon replacement from Royer. Had mine for a while and although i was afraid to use it at first, i now know it's a very solid mic capable of handling anything you throw at it, you just gotta be careful when handling it is all. Can't drop it on the floor or bump it against stuff while moving it around like a 57. I would avoid close miking a drum kit with it for example, although some people are crazy enough to take the risk.

 

[colonel kurtz]

i saw a pic awhile back of a 121 being used to mic the shell of a snare...and it was ON the shell - maybe 2" back. seems like it would be a bad idea, but apparently the mic did fine, so yea...

also, lasse, next time you track drums, try that 121 as a room mic...those things make for awesome crushed ambience tracks!

 

[pipaguapique]

i saw a pic awhile back of a 121 being used to mic the shell of a snare...and it was ON the shell - maybe 2" back. seems like it would be a bad idea, but apparently the mic did fine, so yea...

also, lasse, next time you track drums, try that 121 as a room mic...those things make for awesome crushed ambience tracks!

kick front too!!!

or screw it!! its also great on the kick inside. It will take the pressure.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think Guitar cabs don't actually push much air. SPL is not the same as dB. My understanding is that Guitar cabs have a high dB, but low SPL so they are not likely to damage ribbon mics, IIRC. Loud sung (not screamed) vocal are much more likely to cause damage to a ribbon mic than a guitar loudspeaker because of the amount of actual air movement and pressure against the diaphragm, especially on 'H' and 'P' plosives.

EDIT: I see that Royer recommends not using them back-oriented on guitar cab, but I'm curious if that is more just to be safe, considering that guitar cab is probably one of the main uses for that mic now. I'm probably not making much sense now, it's been a 12 hour work day for me.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

"not pushing air" does NOT mean the same as "low SPL".
What kills the ribbon is the steady flow of air in one direction, but that has nothing to do with SPL.