Salvaging a bad recording?

[etlgfx]

I'm doing this collaboration recording across the internet and the bassist sent me his file the other day for me to record on top of. When I openend the file I noticed his recording peaks out at about -24 dB or so, so when I boost it to a decent level to match with my own recording you start hearing a bunch of crackling, noise, etc.

I know he should've recorded as close to the limit as possible without going over, specially since it's digital, but the playing is solid and don't want to make him redo it unless it's necessary. Any ideas how to salvage the recording? Effects, whatever?

 

[hourglass]

I'm doing this collaboration recording across the internet and the bassist sent me his file the other day for me to record on top of. When I openend the file I noticed his recording peaks out at about -24 dB or so, so when I boost it to a decent level to match with my own recording you start hearing a bunch of crackling, noise, etc.

I know he should've recorded as close to the limit as possible without going over, specially since it's digital, but the playing is solid and don't want to make him redo it unless it's necessary. Any ideas how to salvage the recording? Effects, whatever?

There's no need to get it as close to 0dbfs as possible unless you're still on 16-bit converters.

Try tracking your instruments so they peak between -12 and -6 and your overall mix will come out cleaner.

Drop your level to -12 and bring his up to there. See how that sounds.

ryan

 

[etlgfx]

it IS only 16-bit, but lowering mine and raising his is a good idea, why didn't I think of that thanks

 

[etlgfx]

but the final recording should be mastered / mixed to as close to 0db as possible right?

 

[hourglass]

but the final recording should be mastered / mixed to as close to 0db as possible right?

Yeah... the FINAL step should push the peaks up to 0dbfs. (actually, I set the limiter to -0.2, myself.)

Before you get to that point, however, you want to have some headroom for your mix.

Look at it this way:

Record two guitar tracks so they peak as close to 0 without going over. Pan one right and one left.

Then, record a bass track and have it peak as close to 0 as you can get it...

Now - solo the bass track and watch your main output meters.

They're peaking very near zero.

Un-solo the bass and then solo the two guitar tracks. Again, your main output meters are peaking near zero.

Now try it with the Bass AND both guitars soloed.

What happened to your meters?

What's going to happen when you add drums?

I think a lot of people avoid this by taking shortcuts...

You can avoid clipping the main meters by putting an L2 plugin across the POST of the main outs.

BUT -- YOU DON'T WANT TO MIX THIS WAY.

You will get a much cleaner mix with more definition and clarity if you keep the main meters from clipping WITHOUT a limiter.

Then, when you do strap a limiter across your mix you will be able to boost and you won't all of a sudden be facing a ton of low-end that you didn't have before because your mix will already be properly balanced.

ryan

 

[chadsxe]

Yeah... the FINAL step should push the peaks up to 0dbfs. (actually, I set the limiter to -0.2, myself.)

Before you get to that point, however, you want to have some headroom for your mix.

Look at it this way:

Record two guitar tracks so they peak as close to 0 without going over. Pan one right and one left.

Then, record a bass track and have it peak as close to 0 as you can get it...

Now - solo the bass track and watch your main output meters.

They're peaking very near zero.

Un-solo the bass and then solo the two guitar tracks. Again, your main output meters are peaking near zero.

Now try it with the Bass AND both guitars soloed.

What happened to your meters?

What's going to happen when you add drums?

I think a lot of people avoid this by taking shortcuts...

You can avoid clipping the main meters by putting an L2 plugin across the POST of the main outs.

BUT -- YOU DON'T WANT TO MIX THIS WAY.

You will get a much cleaner mix with more definition and clarity if you keep the main meters from clipping WITHOUT a limiter.

Then, when you do strap a limiter across your mix you will be able to boost and you won't all of a sudden be facing a ton of low-end that you didn't have before because your mix will already be properly balanced.

ryan

There is something about this that bothers the hell out of me......

Instead of judgeing you final master on how close you get to 0db trying using your ears to judge what is best. Espically if you are just starting out. A lot of the time a mix does not call for these amazinngly loud squashed masters. Nothing on this planet gets more abuse the the L2-3 limiter.

 

[006]

It's much better to have to turn up a overall mix in the mastering stage than turn it down. Just like hourglass said, it's better to keep your project leveled out and leave a lot of headroom than to have everything really hot the entire time. You have to consider the bigger picture when you have all these instruments going on. I use to get into a lot of trouble mix-wise because I liked having everything as hot as possible and then turn it down if it needs it. But that was a long time ago and I quickly learned that it's better to turn things up than down. Now I track everything between -12 and -4db. Drums usually around -6db for the entire kit. Guitars I track at -5db, and bass guitar around -6db. Vocals are usually around -5db as well when tracking.

Agreed, having a limiter on your master bus is not a good idea for mixing. I've tried this too, and it just doesn't turn out nearly as good as just taking the extra couple of minutes to make sure everything is leveled out and not peaking, ever. Making everything loud as shit is for the mastering stage.

Yes, I just repeated basically everything hourglass said. So what!

~006

 

[hourglass]

There is something about this that bothers the hell out of me......

Instead of judgeing you final master on how close you get to 0db trying using your ears to judge what is best. Espically if you are just starting out. A lot of the time a mix does not call for these amazinngly loud squashed masters. Nothing on this planet gets more abuse the the L2-3 limiter.

Please note that I said the peaks... the peaks can go to -0.2dbfs. I never said anything about RMS levels.

The peak of the snare drum on a non-limited mix should hit 8db or more above EVERYTHING else - that's what my ears tell me.

I never suggested that anyone carve all the tops off of their waveforms. My statement about using the L2 is a testament to the inevitable - I know it's gonna happen nine times outta ten, so my suggestions are designed to make the best of it.

I'm just as sick of putting in CD's that want to overheat my player's amp circuitry before I get the volume even to the half-way point as you are.

ryan

 

[chadsxe]

Please note that I said the peaks... the peaks can go to -0.2dbfs. I never said anything about RMS levels.

The peak of the snare drum on a non-limited mix should hit 8db or more above EVERYTHING else - that's what my ears tell me.

I never suggested that anyone carve all the tops off of their waveforms. My statement about using the L2 is a testament to the inevitable - I know it's gonna happen nine times outta ten, so my suggestions are designed to make the best of it.

I'm just as sick of putting in CD's that want to overheat my player's amp circuitry before I get the volume even to the half-way point as you are.

ryan

In that case well said.......

By the way have you ever imported a modern metal mix into a wave view.......it pretty much looks like a flat bar with a few cracks hear and there......it is amazing how loud and not "pumping" these people makes these things....I wish I new the secret...

 

[metalkingdom]

Wait...let me get this straight. You guys are saying to NOT record as hot as possible? If that is what you're saying, then you guys need to read up a little on A/D conversion and dithering. You ALWAYS want to record as hot as possible without clipping, REGARDLESS of 16 bits or 24 bits or any bits.

There is nothing wrong with mixing with a compressor or limiter on the L-R buss, if that's what you wanna do. The results will depend on how good your mix is. I don't use a limiter, but I always strap a compressor across the 2-mix.

Understanding signal flow is KEY to studio engineering!!!

 

[hourglass]

In that case well said.......

By the way have you ever imported a modern metal mix into a wave view.......it pretty much looks like a flat bar with a few cracks hear and there......it is amazing how loud and not "pumping" these people makes these things....I wish I new the secret...

Yeah - my eyes were torn open to this when I imported something from Sentenced's "Crimson" album in... I wanted to see if I could get a feel for what they had done by hearing something I knew very well and watching the reaction of the meters & scopes...

I can still remember just staring at the wave profile going, "FUCK..."

As far as getting them not to pump and still sound good - it takes a steady hand and good tools. The closest I can get to that kind of thing when I try is by following what I said above - the cleaner and more balanced the mix (especially watch the low end!!) the easier it is to get it louder without it affecting the balance or sounding compressed.

But, as I said, I'd always rather work with a less insane level. If you want it louder you've got a volume knob on yer stereo.

ryan

ryan

 

[etlgfx]

hey thanks guys for all the great tips

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

It's a very good thing to mix with a limiter in the bus master because you'll have a better idea of how it will sound like when it will be mastered (usually you'll realize that your drums will be suffering the most from the limiting and so will put them louder).

 

[chadsxe]

It's a very good thing to mix with a limiter in the bus master because you'll have a better idea of how it will sound like when it will be mastered (usually you'll realize that your drums will be suffering the most from the limiting and so will put them louder).

I guess to each his own....I honestly never have tried it but I think I will this weekend....

 

[metalkingdom]

I guess to each his own....

Maybe, but not really.