scouts thread

[cookiecutter]

Pretty much. It's a nice thing to boast about though.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

I was in army cadets one year. It sucked ass.

 

[genocide roach]

OA is a popularity contest.

Nothing more. If you get Eagle, who cares if you're OA?

its not always a popularity contest. most of the time everyone makes it. i think when i was called out, everyone made it. although, i have seen some troops elect no one. kinda suprising.

youre right though. if you make eagle, who cares. unless you get vigil too, then youre uber cool *toots own horn*.

family life was torture for me. i dislike talking to my family about stuff. and family meetings? id rather shoot myself in the foot.
~gR~

 

[The Ozzman]

I hated Family Life and Personal Management.

The funny part about the latter is that I'd like to do Estate Planning as a career.

 

[cookiecutter]

I just said I had family meetings because both me and my family agreed it was kind of stupid to have them when I was nearly 18.

 

[AchrisK]

I was never in any scouts or anything. I was raised by hippies that turned into Christians. So I did things with the Jr. High and High School groups at church during that time.

But my son was in Cub Scouts for one year when he was like 8(?). It was a little bit fun. We went on one cool camping trip in a totally dry and dusty field. The place sucked but it was fun.

 

[cookiecutter]

For the atheists here who were in scouts, which I guess is most of us, check out this website: http://www.scoutingforall.org/. It is an organization started by an Eagle Scout who was kicked out of scouting because he was an atheist. Scouting also discriminates against homosexuals. Bigotry to please the Christian right section should not be part of an organization that should instead promote tolerance and community. This is a big issue for me obviously because I am part of a minority that is discriminated against, and I know that if I have a son in the future, I want him to join an organization that he and his family feel welcomed to.

 

[genocide roach]

scouting has no problem with agnostics though. the "possibility" line works every time.

as for discrimination, theyre a private organization. they can have whatever policies they want

sure ive meet people who werent so understanding about my choices. but most get over it. i did have one LDS try to lead me into saying i'm athiest so he could tell me i shouldnt be a scout. i caught on pretty quick. it was kinda funny to me.

the homosexual policy hits a little closer to home though. i know of one gay guy who made advances on kids in his ship (seascout). he's in jail now (molestation). here's another example from my personal experiences. i was a den chief for a cub den and brought them into my troop. and i became pretty close friends with the family who ran the den. turns out the dad was a pedophile and molested quite a few boys (and his daughter). that one really hit home for me. cuz these kids were my friends, and i had strong feelings for their daughter.

surely not all homosexuals are going to molest kids, but there are quite a few sickos out there that seek out scout troops to meet boys.

but ya know what, if youre gay and you want to be in a scout troop fine. but dont be open about it. dont ask dont tell is a perfect policy. why? its not your everyday enviroment. the BSA is about raising kids to be strong adults, and its not some gay leaders responsibility to teach them all about homosexuality. thats the parents job. your job is to teach em knots, camping skills, and how to be an upstanding citizen. teach them not to discriminate (to any type of person), but dont teach them about sexuality.
~gR~

 

[cookiecutter]

I disagree completely. If they were worried about sexual attraction/advances towards boys, why allow women as leaders? It's not like allowing homosexuality is allowing pedophilia. If you think that, then you are buying into a hateful stereotype about gays.

Don't ask don't tell is not a good policy. Do straight people need to hide their sexuality? Unlike many popular rumors, you cannot "catch the gay". If anything having a gay person in the troop may make people think, "hey maybe this person is a human being after all". You don't have to teach them about homosexuality, but acknowledging the fact that there are gay people and that they are human is something I consider to be part of becoming a "strong adult".

I know they allow agnostics, but I am not an agnostic and with the knowledge and reasoning power I have, I can't force myself to be one. This is another example of teaching young children that having faith (ie believing in something without evidence) is better than using reason, and I think that goes against making boys into "strong adults".

I know they are private organization (albeit with help from the feds) and can discriminate, but that doesn't mean they should. It is hypocritical to say you are teaching boys good values when you also teach them that bigotry against gays and atheists is acceptable.

 

[CAIRATH]

You have some pretty revolting world views there, genocide_roach.

 

[The Ozzman]

I disagree completely. If they were worried about sexual attraction/advances towards boys, why allow women as leaders? It's not like allowing homosexuality is allowing pedophilia. If you think that, then you are buying into a hateful stereotype about gays.

Don't as don't tell is not a good policy. Do straight people need to hide their sexuality? Unlike many popular rumors, you cannot "catch the gay". If anything having a gay person in the troop may make people think, "hey maybe this person is a human being after all". You don't have to teach them about homosexuality, but acknowledging the fact that there are gay people and that they are human is something I consider to be part of becoming a "strong adult".

I know they allow agnostics, but I am not an agnostic and with the knowledge and reasoning power I have, I can't force myself to be one. This is another example of teaching young children that having faith (ie believing in something without evidence) is better than using reason, and I think that goes against making boys into "strong adults".

I know they are private organization (albeit with help from the feds) and can discriminate, but that doesn't mean they should. It is hypocritical to say you are teaching boys good values when you also teach them that bigotry against gays and atheists is acceptable.

I agree 100%

 

[cookiecutter]

I can thank the scouts for giving me a kick in the pants and alerting me to the utter absurdity of religion, especially Mormons. A year ago at Philmont we went to an LDS service and I came out of it wondering how anyone could believe such an obvious fantasy. Now here I am a year later part of my school's Secular Alliance and participating in these wonderful debates on the internet.

 

[zoidberg]

I disagree completely. If they were worried about sexual attraction/advances towards boys, why allow women as leaders? It's not like allowing homosexuality is allowing pedophilia. If you think that, then you are buying into a hateful stereotype about gays.

Don't ask don't tell is not a good policy. Do straight people need to hide their sexuality? Unlike many popular rumors, you cannot "catch the gay". If anything having a gay person in the troop may make people think, "hey maybe this person is a human being after all". You don't have to teach them about homosexuality, but acknowledging the fact that there are gay people and that they are human is something I consider to be part of becoming a "strong adult".

I know they allow agnostics, but I am not an agnostic and with the knowledge and reasoning power I have, I can't force myself to be one. This is another example of teaching young children that having faith (ie believing in something without evidence) is better than using reason, and I think that goes against making boys into "strong adults".

I know they are private organization (albeit with help from the feds) and can discriminate, but that doesn't mean they should. It is hypocritical to say you are teaching boys good values when you also teach them that bigotry against gays and atheists is acceptable.

you deserve one of these -->

 

[ohiogrinder]

the fact I was an atheist also cost me in the scouting realm.

 

[cookiecutter]

Luckily you've found Odin

 

[genocide roach]

Do straight people need to hide their sexuality?

yes. when involved with the boy scouts, absolutely! sex ed isnt a merit badge.

You have some pretty revolting world views there, genocide_roach.

care to explain? and realize i acknowledge that not all homsexuals are going to molest little boys. i had (hes dead now) a gay uncle, and was never molested. ive had gay neighbors and never been hit on. obviously most can control themselves.


sex needs to stay out of the BSA. homo and hetero
~gR~

 

[The Ozzman]

Okay, I've waited to say my piece on this.

The scoutmaster(s) are volunteering their time and effort to see that these boys grow up to be (at least) better young men. Even for those that don't stay in until Eagle because of various reasons, there is still a rewarding experience in scouting.

Now, while the Scoutmaster (the troop should be run by the scouts, anyway, not the Scoutmaster) is, in GR's case, only supposed to 'teach knots, teach them cold weather camping essentials, etc' (even though the older scouts should be teaching the younger scouts this shit, anyway), the scoutmaster also has a duty to develop the boy into a young man. Now, whether this is through being a mentor or being a counselor to help a homosexual boy cope with his sexuality and feelings, it doesn't matter. The Scoutmaster should be supportive. What good is joining an organization in which brotherhood is taught when there is no cohesive brotherhood because of some derision by fellow scouts for being gay? It doesn't make sense, GR. The Scoutmaster is there to oversee that they are taught the proper skills necessary to advance to the next rank, as well as develop the skills to become the future leaders of tomorrow. Whether that is self-confidence, ambition or humility, it doesn't matter.

 

[genocide roach]

well, i dont think you entirely understand what i was saying. as a matter of fact, i specifically mentioned (in the other thread i think) that scouting was great for building boys into upstanding citizens. its more than knots and camping.

but any scoutmaster will tell you that while counseling a kid when theyre down is good, it gets really hairy when we start talking about sexual stuff. if i were in that situation id probably try and make him feel better, but would shy away from any detailed discussion on sexuality. its not just our place. tell him to not be ashamed of who he is, but draw the line at that. and after that trip was over, id tell the parents (assuming i knew their parents werent the problem)

chances are, if the kid is coming to you with a problem, the problem isnt that he's gay, its that he's uncomfortable with himself. self esteem is somthing that we can all adress.
~gR~

 

[cookiecutter]

I don't think you understand what hiding one's sexuality means. Being an openly gay person doesn't mean teaching everyone about anal sex. For example, my assistant scoutmaster often said things like "oh yeah, me and my girlfriend went there once too, blah blah...". You have to hide things like that if you're gay. As Ozzman said, the leadership is there to be supportive. Even if there are no gay members of the troop, it still is harmful to teach children that it is alright to discriminate against homosexuals.

 

[genocide roach]

isnt the policy directed at leaders only?

discrimination, of any group, should be discouraged. nip it in the butt (hehe) when it happens. but there is no reason to bring it up without provocation.
~gR~