Sidechaining on guitars: would it work ?

[jacare]

HOW DO SIDECHAIN?¯\(°_o)/¯
Now that the thread is introducted, let's cut to the chase!
Guys, here's the deal: I'm getting a cool sound for my guitars, and I want them loud as... erm... loud ! But when I turn them up a bit, they FUCKING bury my snare. I know that this isn't the first time it happens, and I know that I should cut some db on the frequencies that are fighting with each other. the thing IS: those frequencies are the sweet pot that is making my snare crack, and my guitars sound as I like (I know, I know: you're a fuckin' arse). So I thought: well... some use sidechain to duck the bass and give room for the kick sooooo.... would it work with the guitar/snare situation, I mean, the snare duckin' a bit in the guitars track to make space ? Has anyone here tried it already ? Thank you in advance !!!!
WOW that was long... :hotjump:

 

[Ermz]

If it's a busy metal mix where the snare is getting hit frequently, you might find all the ducking to induce ear fatigue, especially considering it will be pulling down the guitars, which are at the sides of the stereo image, every time a snare, which is in the center, is hit. Just trying to imagine it is giving me ear fatigue.

My suggestion is to keep working at the basics and get it right there.

 

[smy1]

Yea, what Ermz said. I never understand the "guitars bury the drums" problem. Especially not in metal where the guitars are L100/R100 and the drums are in-between (and often somewhat scooped in the mids) ...

Back to the EQing board, I'd say

 

[jacare]

I never understand the "guitars bury the drums" problem. Especially not in metal where the guitars are L100/R100 and the drums are in-between

Neither do I !
But it does man... just make the guitar volume up a bit, and the snare loses some of it's presence... as you said, back to EQ... thank you !

 

[Fox Mulder]

I used to suffer from the same problem unless I was working on something with more of an old-skool guitar tone. (less low-end).

This problem can be taken care of by attenuating the 130hz - 180hz range in both guitars and bass. I sometimes increase the 130hz - 180hz range in the drum aux as well if needed.

 

[jacare]

I used to suffer from the same problem unless I was working on something with more of an old-skool guitar tone. (less low-end).

This problem can be taken care of by attenuating the 130hz - 180hz range in both guitars and bass. I sometimes increase the 130hz - 180hz range in the drum aux as well if needed.

Thank you, that's sorta my aim now: old school !

 

[ahjteam]

HOW DO SIDECHAIN?¯(°_o)/¯

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/403851-sidechaining-faq.html

 

[jacare]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/403851-sidechaining-faq.html

Thanks pal... but I just posted the shrugging guy as a (now I see it ) "bad taste joke". I've read this amazing thread you've given us, and was thanks to it that I can sidechain sucessfully today... BTW, thank you for that thread

 

[ahjteam]

but to answer your question: Don't do it. I've tried it and it gets really annoying after a while. Sidechaining vocals so that the guitars go down like 1-2dB to give it a bit of room works tho, but I still suggest you turn your levels down and put monitors louder so that you are not fighting the mix in vicinity of the headroom. Try to make it so that the snare is the loudest and its peaks hits -6dB, then finish the mix and then do the mastering process to get your loudness going on.

 

[jacare]

Ok, I'll watch my levels.

 

[Fox Mulder]

arrite. normally, how much gain reduction do you aim for while limiting your snares?

 

[jacare]

arrite. normally, how much gain reduction do you aim for while limiting your snares?

this case, 4db

 

[Fox Mulder]

oh that should be fine.
sweep through 300hz to 5khz, and "bell-up" 3 or 4 spots that you perceive to be good

oh and yes, it's been awhile. have you tried anything of help?

Please do share

 

[Sean in Silence]

did you try using a clipper like Gclip on the signal chain of your snare?
It really can make your snare pop out
If you're still having trouble try and use some parallel compression on the drums
it'll bring your snare right out front!
haha

 

[John_C]

I just started using clipping on my snare..........it really does make all the difference

 

[beyond dead]

clip the snare. parallel comp will do the trick!

 

[Erkan]

I have been thinking about the same thing, but with standard side chaining, all of the guitar's spectrum would be dragged down when a snare is hit. I was thinking if there was a way to set up so that only a certain part of the guitar spectrum would be affected by the sidechain, then it wouldn't fatigue the ears as much I think. To do this, I guess one would need like a multi band compressor that has sidechain possibility and where you can assign the side chain to what bands you want to trigger... or something, I dunno.

Otherwise, I would suggest finding the crack frequency in the snare and then do some surgical EQ on the guitars to leave space for the snare. It worked for me once but you seem to be aware of this technique already so... and this technique cuts a permanent hole in the guitars, where as a side chain only cuts a whole when it needs to.

I dunno dude... but if anyone knows of any plug or a way to set up a side chain to trigger only a range of frequencies, please tell! I think it would have lots of uses for lots of things.

 

[jacare]

oh that should be fine.
sweep through 300hz to 5khz, and "bell-up" 3 or 4 spots that you perceive to be good

oh and yes, it's been awhile. have you tried anything of help?

Please do share

Guys, thank you for your attention and tips!
I think I've solved my problem removing my "crazy guitar bus" that was: send the signal of a guitar with an amp sim track from 2 different bussesw/ IR loader, 1 with a center IR and other with a edge or between IR, panned 50 and 100 respectively, for each channel. I was getting a huge sound, but there was no room for the snare. I've removed the busing (I'll try it again later with a lower volume and a different EQ) and the snare appeared . The fuck is: I can't raise so much the top end at this snare 'cause I didn't miced it properly (met this forum after that) and it has a lot of HH bleed. It's gated, but still... BLEEEEEEEEEED. Thank you. BTW, I've tried GClip on the snare and it really brings it out... I'm using reagate>loser transient shaper>classic master limiter>classic compressor>reaeq... and now, I'll insert GClip somewhere in the middle of this mess

thank you

 

[John_C]

I have been thinking about the same thing, but with standard side chaining, all of the guitar's spectrum would be dragged down when a snare is hit. I was thinking if there was a way to set up so that only a certain part of the guitar spectrum would be affected by the sidechain, then it wouldn't fatigue the ears as much I think. To do this, I guess one would need like a multi band compressor that has sidechain possibility and where you can assign the side chain to what bands you want to trigger... or something, I dunno.

Otherwise, I would suggest finding the crack frequency in the snare and then do some surgical EQ on the guitars to leave space for the snare. It worked for me once but you seem to be aware of this technique already so... and this technique cuts a permanent hole in the guitars, where as a side chain only cuts a whole when it needs to.

I dunno dude... but if anyone knows of any plug or a way to set up a side chain to trigger only a range of frequencies, please tell! I think it would have lots of uses for lots of things.

Well there's instructions in the reaper manual for splitting a track into different tracks all with different parts of the frequency spectrum, you could then side chain a normal compresser in to the track with the frequencies you want to cut to reveal the snare.
Might be possible in other DAWS just so long as you can find an appropriate frequency splitter plug.
Dont know of any multiband compresser that has sidechaining though

 

[jacare]

Well there's instructions in the reaper manual for splitting a track into different tracks all with different parts of the frequency spectrum, you could then side chain a normal compresser in to the track with the frequencies you want to cut to reveal the snare.
Might be possible in other DAWS just so long as you can find an appropriate frequency splitter plug.
Dont know of any multiband compresser that has sidechaining though

I think... I THINK that C3 multiband compressor from Slim Slow Slider has the sidechaining feature.
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/950.html
Given for the best price !!!