I always seem to have a little trouble with snare dynamics. When I get the snare around -18db rms I get a ton of clipping. I can tame it with a fast attack on compressor but it kills the punch. Am I missing something here? Can someone please explain how to control the snare without killing the transient? hope this question makes sense. Just always seems like a high peak level with a low rms level.
Snare dynamic range
- Thread starter Studdy
- Start date
Old Man Doom
Member
Clipper. It adds some nice saturation instead of killing the transient outright. It might be too much depending on if you're going for soft or hard clipping, but I always find it helps since I like my drums to sound big and filthy. Helps on my kicks too — adds a little bit of splat to 'em.
Old Man Doom
Member
I don't mean for this to sound like beginner shit (because I've definitely been here before and I am by no means an expert), but from what I understand, the VU meter will track the transients slower, thus giving a false impression as to what the real RMS level is (i.e. clipping while at 0VU). Try a PPM meter (like on Klanghelm's VUMT) for transient heavy material.
This thread saved my life a little while ago: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/423087-drum-tracking-levels.html
This thread saved my life a little while ago: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/423087-drum-tracking-levels.html
Oh sorry bro should have been more specific. I have all kinds of analyzing tools.
Rme digicheck, waves Paz meters, etc. thanks for the responses though.
Rme digicheck, waves Paz meters, etc. thanks for the responses though.
I think it comes down to compression, I just have to work at my snare compression a little more. When bring up my makeup gain it brings up the uncompressed initial transient as well so I just have trouble finding the perfect balance. If this makes sense I feel like I need to automate the initial transient down a few db after compressing, obviously this is what a compressor with fast attack is doing but I just don't really like snare compression lol.
He's Dead, Jim
Member
I don't necessarily mix my snare to -18db. I mix the entire kit to about that level and adjust the snare (and its attendant verb/parallel comp/room mic tracks) accordingly, then put a little bit of clipping on the snare top and some gentle compression and a tiny bit of limiting on the drum bus. Together that usually solves any clipping/volume issues. Most of my compression is to make the snare pop, whereas setting the levels and tastefully using the clipper/limiter is the only real range control I'm doing.
Very nice info thanks man.
Are you putting the limiter on the snare bus or the entire drum track? I always use bus compression on my drumbus (generally ssl) but havent really tried limiting to much on drums, a little here and there , also played with L1 on overheads to remove some snare transient etc, but maybe some snare limiting is what I'm missing/hearing.
He's Dead, Jim
Member
Only a clipper on the main snare track, then a limiter on the whole bus after compressing it 1-2 db with a slow attack, fast-medium release, and yeah always SSL for punchiness. The limiter just sort of works for me; it doesn't change the sound too much but it reduces some of the unnecessarily loud tops of the loudest transients and saves a decent amount of headroom. I'm sure somebody will come into this thread and write that there's no reason to ever put a limiter on a drum bus though 
Old Man Doom
Member
Only a clipper on the main snare track, then a limiter on the whole bus after compressing it 1-2 db with a slow attack, fast-medium release, and yeah always SSL for punchiness. The limiter just sort of works for me; it doesn't change the sound too much but it reduces some of the unnecessarily loud tops of the loudest transients and saves a decent amount of headroom. I'm sure somebody will come into this thread and write that there's no reason to ever put a limiter on a drum bus though
Yep, except I use a clipper on the drumbus, not a limiter, doing mainly hard clipping on the kick and snare transients (about 1-2db at most). That way, I can have the whole kit maxing out at around -7db on the bus. Love it.
DavePiatek
Member
RMS metering is average level. Not so good for stuff like fast drum transients. Switch your metering to sample peak mode. I track my drums peaking at -12dB in sample peak. It gives you PLENTY of headroom.
Thanks Dave
Are you also peaking around -12db on snare / kick when starting a mix or just at the tracking stage. I really appreciate / respect your advice dude. It's not like i cant mix a track, i just feel like a good solid foundation/starting point really sets the stage up for a great mix. Thanks a lot.
DavePiatek
Member
Thanks Dave
Are you also peaking around -12db on snare / kick when starting a mix or just at the tracking stage.
I peak at -12 for both tracking and mixing. When I apply compression, I always set the makeup gain so that the apparent volume is the same when the effect is bypassed. This way, you can get a good apples-to-apples comparison of what sonic effect the compression is performing, not just "louder is better".
For tracking this works great because when the drummer or singer REALLY goes for it on choruses, you've got some wiggle room before clipping happens. For mixing, -12 on the individual tracks gives you enough headroom not to clip at the master fader and have to turn it down. This is all predicated on the idea that you're recording at 24 bit.
mva801
Member
- Nov 18, 2009
- 1,870
- 13
- 38
Yeah RMS is not a good way to measure drum transients at all. What Dave suggested is fine. I usually set my drum peak levels to hit no more than -6 or -8 peak.
Don't bend over backwards making sure every tiny little thing is at -18dB RMS man. Just stick close to that region for material with a longer envelope, and for quick transients just leave some headroom. You're thinking too much about it.
Don't bend over backwards making sure every tiny little thing is at -18dB RMS man. Just stick close to that region for material with a longer envelope, and for quick transients just leave some headroom. You're thinking too much about it.
RiF
Member
I just read (and tried briefly) that Waves MV2 is a good tool to control the snare dynamics. Not so much the envelope of the snare hit itself, but the overall dynamics (like in "pinning the level"). My short tests showed that it seems to work fine and I like it better than using a compressor for this task. A "standard" compressor seems to be the better tool for shaping the envelope.
