Snare Reverb on TGE

[A Gruesome Discovery]

The snare on This Godless Endeavor: that is fucking wet, and as a devotee of all things reverberated, I love it. It's also right up front too, which I'm finding very difficult to achieve in my mixes- it seems that medium-to-longer reverbs push the snare way, way back in the mix, while backing off on the send just makes it sound dry again- I can't seem to find a balance. I've got the hang of reverb on other sources, but the up-front yet deliciously reverberated snare sound eludes me. So what black magic is Andy performing here?

Some things I've tried, with limited success, using a number of different fairly nice verbs:
-EQ'ing the send, which I'm finding to be critical. A fair bit of lows need to be rolled off to avoid mud, and some pretty ugly resonances need to be tamed.
-Using varying amounts of pre-delay: this adds a lot of space around the snare, which helps the punchiness poke through, but there's only so much you can add before the snare and its verb begin to sound like two unrelated entities.
-Early reflections: the little slappy delays add a bit of bite back to a washy reverb, but really gives more of a 'small room' vibe, and still doesn't quite give back the punch.
Another little thing I'm trying is bussing the snare and its verb to another track and compressing it; this- combined with some of the above methods- is getting me in the ballpark, but I still can't find my seat. There's something I'm still missing here; anyone got any theories/tips?

 

[KeithRT99]

i too have wondered this

 

[NathanSoulfracture]

Ive always wondered this.

Maybe try duplicating the Snare track keep one dry and add the reverb on the other that way it still sounds up close but also has a reverb effect.

 

[TheStoryteller]

Ive always wondered this.

Maybe try duplicating the Snare track keep one dry and add the reverb on the other that way it still sounds up close but also has a reverb effect.

That would be exactly the same as using a reverb send instead of insert.

 

[stuh84]

Having a huge reverb, but sending very little to it? Or the opposite, sending lots but having a very small one?

Just a couple of idea's

 

[Jackal_Strain]

Something I've found to work pretty nicely for me in the past is to heavily reverberate the bottom snare channel and keep the snaretop channel completely dry.
I know it's not what you asked about, but it's worked pretty well for me in the past.

 

[~BURNY~]

I'd say very punchy snares are up front by nature. The way the transients jumps at the listener gives definition (they are mainly hf). Sneap's snare are compressed to make that typical "pop" (the sound, not the music). The attack is very obvious. Knowing that the human brain use high frequencies amount as distance information... Far=dull, close=bright.
A slightly darker reverb sould not take over the source. So I think it's all about clever eq. That and maybe the use of a plate reverb (correct me if I'm wrong but a real plate has no ER thus no "roominess" information). ER are also important as a distance factor. wet=Far, dry=close. It's different with a plate cause there's no ER.
For the time values (Predelay and decay), using tempo is usually helpful. (60/bpm gives 1/1 note length)
Maybe a slight ducking too ... Not sure
Ok, it's all theory, so take it with a grain of salt... Now I shut up.

 

[A Gruesome Discovery]

I'd say very punchy snares are up front by nature. The way the transients jumps at the listener gives definition (they are mainly hf). Sneap's snare are compressed to make that typical "pop" (the sound, not the music). The attack is very obvious. Knowing that the human brain use high frequencies amount as distance information... Far=dull, close=bright.

This makes the most sense to me- I thought my snare track was pretty snappy (I hit it fairly hard through an 1176), but adding reverb mucked it up again. In what is probably a leftover habit from using Portastudios for way too long, I always went for the sound I want first, usually recorded w/EQ and compression, then used Send FX at mixdown. I'm finding that I really need to consider FX with a more "mix-as-you-go" attitude; rather than get a good, natural snare sound and try to force that into a reverb program, I have to consider the reverb as an important element of the sound itself. The way I'm messing with now is compressing the snare to a POP, and using the artificial decay to make the rest of it up. Take off the reverb, and it almost doesn't sound like a snare anymore, but leave it on and I think that's the sound I'm going for.
Thanks, all.

 

[Fragle]

The snare on This Godless Endeavor: that is fucking wet, and as a devotee of all things reverberated,
you obviously haven't heared a lot of 80s music then

btw, i LOVE that huuuuuge "roomy" (is that even a word?!) snare sound that was so popular in the 80s....bright, lotsa reverb, man that's the way to go....if it sounds like the snare was recorded in a large empty warehouse, it's about perfect
can't do that with current heavy metal, though....only works with 80s hardrock/"metal"....

 

[A Gruesome Discovery]

you obviously haven't heared a lot of 80s music then

Well, horrible, 'early' digital, low-res, and worst of all- SUPER GATED hair ballad reverb makes me very sad, yes.

 

[Andy Sneap]

Well, horrible, 'early' digital, low-res, and worst of all- SUPER GATED hair ballad reverb makes me very sad, yes.

nah i love that

pishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

thats how a snare should sound.

 

[AStacy2]

I dunno if this is what you're going for but maybe try this. Having larger reverb sends but sending very little back and using multiple reverbs. Use a plate reverb and a room reverb with a small amount of the room reverb being sent back to the snare.

 

[Andy Sneap]

guys, you're over thinking things.

just a medium sized verb, I think what you're also hearing tho is the front end smack of the compression on the snare.

 

[Fragle]

Well, horrible, 'early' digital, low-res, and worst of all- SUPER GATED hair ballad reverb makes me very sad, yes.

fucking blasphemy! :zombie:

 

[Gnash]

I clone all the drum tracks, send to a bus and squash. Then bring them up under the original tracks. The New York Compression trick!