So What (if anything) Does DT Mean to PP?

[lane_miller]

With Michael Portnoy announcing his departure, what (if anything) does Dream Theater mean to ProgPower, and the progressive and power metal genres?

I’ll state right up front that Dream Theater is my favorite band. For me, Images & Words was groundbreaking on a broad front, Metropolis Part 2: Scenes from a Memory reinforced the coolness of the metal concept album, and Train of Thought showed that progressive metal could push the limits of heaviness. Further, I think that Dream Theater set THEE standard for musicianship that both progressive and power metal bands strive to attain.

Having regularly viewed writings on the forum, I have noticed a general bias against Dream Theater that is hard for me to understand. I can understand that the size of the ProgPower festival provides a natural attraction and affection for smaller/underdog bands. But, the bias seems more deeply rooted than that. I can also understand how the pure power metal enthusiasts (like you Shawn!) may not care for Dream Theater’s progressive bent. But even that does not seem to account for the bias that exists.

I would contend that if Dream Theater had not formed (or at least significantly shaped) the progressive metal genre, then the Prog in ProgPower would not exist and possibly the festival itself would not exist. Evidence of my assertion lies in the interviews with and the “influences” listed on the myspace sites of the bands that have played at the festival. Only Iron Maiden and possibly Queensryche get mentioned more often than Dream Theater as the inspiration for the musicians that have graced the stage at ProgPower.

I suspect that there may be some difference of opinion out there, so have at it!

 

[adaher]

Dream Theater is huge for the industry. Without Dream Theater, prog metal probably doesn't exist, at least not the same way we know it today. And power metal, while it would exist, would be much less interesting. Most power metal bands have a slight Dream Theater influence.

Prog metal without Dream Theater as a founding influence is like power metal with no Helloween in its history. Would be totally different.

 

[adaher]

And reading what I wrote 10 minutes later, I think my post is full of crap. I had a lot of contradictory thoughts after posting it and decided that I really don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[5150]

There is no denying DT made a big impact on progressive metal. I would say it continues to be a major influence. And like you, I still enjoy their albums. But at the same time, there are many more bands in the field today because of DT's success. And inevitably, their success turns off the elitest in the Progmetal field (since they are now consider commercial and popular). And you could argue there are better bands out there today.
They will carry on without Mike Portney like they did without Kevin Moore. It could be an improvement for them with new blood in the band. And yes, you can argue that they shouldn't continue under the same name. But let's face it, the DT name sales tickets and to depart from it would mean having to rebuild a fan base and touring logistics. So I don't blame them for keeping the name. Every band faces this dilemma eventually.

Of course, DT has never played PP and never will. It was important to get the progmetal genre on the bill at PP but has little if any impact on PP today.

But in a related matter, I reject Glenn's assertion that Fate's Warning poor ticket sales at PPX was an indication that the progmetal community failed to live up to supporting the festival. Some of us just don't like or think FW is a good band. Lord knows I have tried several times. But to me they are secord-rate Queensryche ... even when Queensryche was in their prime. Yet I did attend that festival and sat through a few songs before departing. I'd say the same for Kamelot. An over-rated band with a few decent songs. But overall, they do nothing for me.

 

[AMBR]

And reading what I wrote 10 minutes later, I think my post is full of crap. I had a lot of contradictory thoughts after posting it and decided that I really don't know what I'm talking about.

Well, at least you can see it. I'm not going to contradict you, because honestly, I'm just not sure. It's all speculation anyway. Personally, I'm sick and tired of all the talk about them, so I'm outta here.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

DT isn't even in the top 50 to 100 of my favorite bands, so to try to validate this point is useless for me. I'm not a prog guy. I grew up on MAIDEN, PRIEST, thrash, and the hair metal bands. Really the only prog stuff I listened to as a kid was RUSH...and I still worship them to this day.

 

[seh750]

But in a related matter, I reject Glenn's assertion that Fate's Warning poor ticket sales at PPX was an indication that the progmetal community failed to live up to supporting the festival.

Fate's was one of the main reasons why I made the trek for my first PP last year.

And don't forget that Dream Theater calls Fate's Warning a strong influence so anybody influenced by DT would be at least indirectly influenced by FW as well.

 

[jem777az]

I would argue that there are quite a few bands who have played ProgPower that would not even exist if it were not for Dream Theater. Whether you like them or not, I don't think you can overstate their influence on the genre.

 

[nomisofsiman]

With Michael Portnoy announcing his departure, what (if anything) does Dream Theater mean to ProgPower, and the progressive and power metal genres?

I’ll state right up front that Dream Theater is my favorite band. For me, Images & Words was groundbreaking on a broad front, Metropolis Part 2: Scenes from a Memory reinforced the coolness of the metal concept album, and Train of Thought showed that progressive metal could push the limits of heaviness. Further, I think that Dream Theater set THEE standard for musicianship that both progressive and power metal bands strive to attain.

Having regularly viewed writings on the forum, I have noticed a general bias against Dream Theater that is hard for me to understand. I can understand that the size of the ProgPower festival provides a natural attraction and affection for smaller/underdog bands. But, the bias seems more deeply rooted than that. I can also understand how the pure power metal enthusiasts (like you Shawn!) may not care for Dream Theater’s progressive bent. But even that does not seem to account for the bias that exists.

I would contend that if Dream Theater had not formed (or at least significantly shaped) the progressive metal genre, then the Prog in ProgPower would not exist and possibly the festival itself would not exist. Evidence of my assertion lies in the interviews with and the “influences” listed on the myspace sites of the bands that have played at the festival. Only Iron Maiden and possibly Queensryche get mentioned more often than Dream Theater as the inspiration for the musicians that have graced the stage at ProgPower.

I suspect that there may be some difference of opinion out there, so have at it!

I also find it odd that there is so much DT hate on this forum. They are probably my fourth favorite band, after Priest, Sabbath and Helloween. The thing is though, Dream Theater changed quite a bit since their inception. They were a lot lighter of a band early on and I would honestly contend that they weren't really prog METAL until Train of Thought. They would have the occasional heavy song, but I wouldn't exactly call it metal, more just a branching out of prog rock. So, I think when people say that DT lost them was at this point. While still progressive, they developed a much metallic sound that had a heavy influence from Metallica, NOT Iron Maiden as they like to say. I've never heard any Maiden influence in their music, sorry Mike.

They still are influential, but I don't know if they're as influential as people think. There already were lots of prog bands and then there were Fates Warning who truly are the starters of progressive metal. Speaking of which...

But in a related matter, I reject Glenn's assertion that Fate's Warning poor ticket sales at PPX was an indication that the progmetal community failed to live up to supporting the festival. Some of us just don't like or think FW is a good band. Lord knows I have tried several times. But to me they are secord-rate Queensryche ... even when Queensryche was in their prime. Yet I did attend that festival and sat through a few songs before departing. I'd say the same for Kamelot. An over-rated band with a few decent songs. But overall, they do nothing for me.

I do to a point. The thing is with X, there really is no true fire way to prove the reasons in terms of why that fest didn't sell out. There was the economy, there was the fact that there were a lot of prog bands but also and in my opinion the real reason it didn't sell out was due to a lot of returning bands. I've said this in a couple of posts by now, but a lot of people if they've seen a band, they aren't as interested to see them a second time and I think that's what happened. Having said that though, the thing is about Fates Warning is they never really were that popular of a band. They have a huge influence on the genre as many musicians have said, but in no stretch of the imagination have they ever really been popular. Plus, a lot of the young people really don't know who Fates Warning is. Lastly, when Fates did play it had been quite a while since their last album, and their old fanbase may not have even known of them playing Progpower. Even the ones who did know they were, they might not have wanted to go due to not liking some of the other bands and may have just wanted to see Fates and for a band who has never been that popular, that's a steep price for just Fates Warning.

As for Queensryche, I've always thought their influence on progressive metal was over stated. To me, they always had more of a classic/NWOBHM type of sound initially. Sure, they had some progressive things that other bands of the genre didn't do, but they didn't stray that much from it. In my opinion the only progressive albums entirely that they did were Mindcrime and Promised Land. Let's be honest, you see a lot of the new prog metal bands and I have a hard time believing they had a huge influence on them. Just my two cents.

Anyways, to bring it back around to Dream Theater, I'm not arguing that they don't have much of an influence. They certainly have a big influence on a lot of the progmetal bands, but so did Fates. The thing with Dream Theater is they ultimately marketed themselves better and in turn, more musicians/bands were listening to them as well of course as so many regular fans. Having said that, I don't necessarily believe had it been for them, that there wouldn't be all these prog bands and no progpower. As I said they're one of my favorites, but I question just how influential they were as they pretty much took a style that was already used and was able to refine it and spread it to more people, and of course like I said they weren't really prog metal until this past decade in my opinion.

 

[jem777az]

As for Queensryche, I've always thought their influence on progressive metal was over stated. To me, they always had more of a classic/NWOBHM type of sound initially. Sure, they had some progressive things that other bands of the genre didn't do, but they didn't stray that much from it. In my opinion the only progressive albums entirely that they did were Mindcrime and Promised Land. Let's be honest, you see a lot of the new prog metal bands and I have a hard time believing they had a huge influence on them.

While Mindcrime and Promised Land are certainly progressive, Rage For Order is their best album and a prog metal masterpiece IMO. I don't hear any NWOBHM I actually hear lots of Pink Floyd in Queensryche.

 

[nomisofsiman]

While Mindcrime and Promised Land are certainly progressive, Rage For Order is their best album and a prog metal masterpiece IMO. I don't hear any NWOBHM I actually hear lots of Pink Floyd in Queensryche.

I don't mean fully NWOBHM. But in terms of vocals and some of the guitar work it just seems like metal to me but with more concentration of songwriting than most metal of the time in terms of variety. Don't hear the Floyd though.