What does 'prog' mean to you?

metal71

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I mean, really... Seems like the term 'prog' is getting watered down. To ME, 'prog' comes from 'progressive', as in PROGRESS, or moving >>> forward >>>.... evolving/growing/reinventing, whatever you wish to call it. It seems that a number of bands obviously spawned YEARS AGO by the likes of Fate's Warning and Dream Theater are being labeled as 'progressive', though they're not really doing anything new.

I noticed all this when I saw how many people were slamming Devin Townsend both at the show and later on this message board. While he may have been the 'odd man out' at this year's show, using my definition above, one could easily make the case that his brand of metal was the most progressive of all the acts on the bill! One listen to his solo projects Terria, Infinity, and in particular Ocean Machine, and like it or not, you will immediately hear the originality and innovative nature of his music.

So-- who's the real 'prog' band? Incidentally, I like the other bands just fine, so this is not about personal tastes...

Comments?
 
There is a website.... www.prog.web.com that I like very much. I believe the guy that runs it posted here a few times before ProgPower. Anyways, at his site he has a document called "What is Progressive Music" it is in the refrence section. It is a pretty good read IMO. Yeeeeeep, If you read it...You will know what Prog is to me.
 
Prog used to have the definition of "progress". This progress was defined as the complex aspects of the music now known as "prog metal". Unfortunately, when bands have been playing this "prog metal" for the past 15 years, it's no longer progressive. Progressive has come to be understood as a genre in itself. But really, if not progressive, what would you call modern Dream Theater clones? They certainly aren't any other form of metal.

So really, there are two ways of looking at the term "progressive". One definition is "belonging to the prog genre" and the other is "progressing; innovating".
 
Originally posted by metal71
one could easily make the case that his brand of metal was the most progressive of all the acts on the bill! One listen to his solo projects Terria, Infinity, and in particular Ocean Machine, and like it or not, you will immediately hear the originality and innovative nature of his music.

So-- who's the real 'prog' band?

To be fair, unless you've heard every single piece of music ever written (recorded or not) in history, then it is impossible to say that anything is unique, true?

Personally, I thought Devin lost much of his 'atmospheric presence' that he has on his studio albums compared to what he played on stage, and it ended up sounding very bluesy/rock/punk 'ish, just with lots of volume.

It did not sound progressive one bit in my opinion. I know several artists that were making that kind of music in the early 80's. That's not to say I didn't like Devin's performance though.

For the record, I haven't seen any Devin bashing yet - can you point out the thread?
 
Originally posted by LucioArgento
Personally, I thought Devin lost much of his 'atmospheric presence' that he has on his studio albums compared to what he played on stage, and it ended up sounding very bluesy/rock/punk 'ish, just with lots of volume.

It did not sound progressive one bit in my opinion. I know several artists that were making that kind of music in the early 80's. That's not to say I didn't like Devin's performance though.

Oh, COOL!

I have some money to go CD shopping at the moment...

Name these 80s artists that were doing Devy music in the 80s please. :)
 
So I tend to post it when people ask, he pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.

The Progressive Definition by Matthew A Rink
-------------------------------------------------
No clear cut definition exists as to just what exactly is meant by the terms "progressive music," "progressive
rock," or "progressive metal." To get a true sense of what these terms mean one must take into consideration all
the sub-genres, properties, styles, characteristics, and all the other abstract qualities that surround it.


Progressive Properties
----------------------

To begin, I will list and define some of the general
characteristics of progressive music.

1) Longer songs
2) Time changes
3) More complex instrumentation/Superior vocals
4) More complex ideas/Lyrical content

1) Generally speaking, prog bands have a tendency to create
very long (epic) songs. Often these songs will be broken up
into parts, but usually not divided into separate tracks on the
cd itself; kinda like sub-albums. On average most songs by prog
bands are somewhere between 5 - 10 min long. The extreme cases
as mentioned before are sometimes 20+ min long.

2) One element that can dub a band or song "progressive" is
the time change or odd-beat characteristic. I'm not going
to pretend to know everything about this, but there is a
noticeable difference between the structure of songs with
really common beats (like 4/4) and those that use diverse beats
or switch between diverse beats. Many prog bands have very
talented drummers and are able to put it all together very
nicely. Yet, at first, many (myself included) may find
certain bands or albums hard to "get into." This usually
stems from songs with odd beats that take a little work to
follow along with. Within a few listens, though, it usually
clicks.

3) The instrumentation is another element that will separate
ordinary rock/metal from *progressive* rock/metal. Commonly,
one will find strings (violins, cellos, etc), keyboard, synth,
piano, flute, etc, mixed in with the guitars and drums typically
found in rock and metal to produce the "progressive" sound. This
powerful and beautiful mix of rock and symphonic elements was my
initial draw to prog. There is a certain higher standard of talent set by
many progressive artists. Many of the musicians are considered
virtuosos, with both passion and wonderful technical ability.
Basically, progressive music will tend to have a more classical
influence than would your typical, blues-based rock music.
There is NO three-chord song in the world of prog.
Another aspect of prog is the incredible range and singing
ability of the vocalists. Multi-part vocal counter-melodies and
other layered vocal arrangements and choirs are also sometimes
used.


4) For the most part, prog bands seem to undertake massive
projects in developing ideas in their songs and albums. Some of their
lyrics are fantasy based, some are pure original fiction, and some
deal with heartfelt human emotion. Yet, no matter what the case,
like true poets usually these ideas are not blatantly brought out
to the forefront. Instead they are set back - not really hidden,
but not always completely obvious, either - waiting to be
discovered (and duly interpreted) by the listener.
A somewhat common element of progressive music is the concept
album (or rock-opera), which is basically a storyline or theme-based
work in which the individual songs on an album all relate to each
other to develop a story or describe some event or emotion, etc.

And the Categories Are...?
--------------------------
There are many, many sub-genres related to the world of
progressive music. Some of these I have never heard of nor
have I heard any examples of. This list of terms will most
certainly not be a complete list of prog music types (nor is it
intended to be). This is basically just a rundown of some of
the genre-related terms I may use in this text or in my
reviews.

1) Progressive ROCK & Progressive METAL
2) Neo-classical
3) Neo-prog
4) Art-Rock
5) Technical Metal
6) Power Metal

1) Progressive METAL and Progressive ROCK are the two major
divisions of progressive music from which other categories can
be sub-classified. Basically Prog METAL will combine elements
of METAL with some or all of those guidelines outlined above,
while Prog ROCK combines a less "edgy" (rock/hard rock) sound
with those guidelines.

2) Neo-classical is as its name suggests a tool for describing
bands whose sound is a modern-classical sound. Neo-classical is
usually associated with prog METAL, with speedy guitar riffs
and solos that may sound more like Mozart or Paganini than your
typical metal sound. Very often these sounds are mixed with
violins, harpsichords, choirs, etc. to give a very convincingly
classical edge to the music.

3) Neo-prog is a term I saw used to describe the sound of the band
Marillion. I don't really know who else to consider "neo-prog"
(I'm not even sure I fully understand the context it was being used
in). I think neo-prog is used to mean "kinda like old 70's prog
rock but we're not in the 70's any more so we have to attach 'neo'
to it." I generally will just refer to any neo-prog band as simply
prog ROCK.

4) Art-rock is a term I see get kicked around. Basically, in my
mind "art" is just a substitute for "progressive." So in effect,
a band described as having an art-rock sound really doesn't tell
me anything other than that it's a progressive band. I've never
seen "art" attached to metal, so generally it must be a description
of rock music. Whenever I use the term "art-rock" I will most
likely be using it as a synonym for "progressive rock."

5) Technical Metal is usually a term used to describe certain
virtuoso musicians (usually guitarists) whose influence is
heavily classical. Technical music has a very skilled, well-
derived style that showcases a musicians ability.

6) Power Metal is a sub-genre I find kind of hard to clearly
define. The sound is not necessarily more "powerful" or "louder."
Power Metal bands usually have catchier, more anthem-like songs
with really strong choruses. Song structure is sometimes
crescendo'ed around these choruses thus creating a more
theatrical, dramatic, emotionally "powerful" sound. Like I said,
it's kind of an abstract concept that I find very hard to describe.

Who is progressive?
-------------------
You may be wondering just what kinds of popular, more mainstream
bands may be considered progressive. Certain bands that have
achieved certain levels of mainstream success will always be
debated as to whether or not they should indeed be considered
true prog.
Bands such as Rush, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Yes, and ELP
(Emerson, Lake, and Palmer) are some of the more well-known
names in prog. All are generally considered to be progressive
music, and for the most part, all would fall under the heading
of prog ROCK.
Since their time (the 70s was the height of prog's influence
on society) progressive music has kind of fallen into obscurity.
Bands who have begun to lead a new revival of prog into some degree
of media exposure have been Marillion, Fates Warning, Queensryche,
Savatage, and (more recently) Dream Theater and Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

The Progressive Ego
-------------------
I wasn't really sure where this fit in, but I couldn't ignore
it. Yes, there is a certain arrogance associated with the fans
of progressive music. I am not going to deny this. It's basically
the, "the music I listen to is so much more intellectual, mature,
sophisticated, and special than everything else" attitude. Well,
this sentiment exists for good reason...all those things are true
about progressive music. It's just definitively better.
So out of this comes the "progressive ego." As fans of
progressive music, it's as if we belong to some exclusive club.
We alone know the secrets, we realize such truths as that
truly great music can only be experienced while listening
with headphones and studying the album's beautiful cover-art.
Unlike most exclusive clubs, however, this one is open to any
and all people. Anyone who can see the value of expanding
their musical horizons to the distant reaches beyond what our
mainstream pop-culture has afforded us.
 
yes! that is the very document I was refering to! that is much more effective than just posting a link as I did. I really like his site. When I was first getting into prog his reviews introduced me to TONS of bands that I probably would never have listened to.