Some advice on making this recording brutal!!

[bluepowder]

Hi all,
I'm recording some tracks for my metal side-project...Trying my hand at mixing it as well....any advice, criticism or thoughts are welcome

Equipment used:
Tom Anderson droptop classic -> custom compressor, Timmy boost-> Line6 UX1-> Cubase SX3
Using waves for eq and compression
Superior Drummer for drums(I just got this so I have not tried replacing samples and I'm still figuring out the bleed and some other stuff)

overall I'm not yet happy with the mix, cant put my finger on why

I really enjoy the mixes on Gojira's Way of all flesh, Textures Polars, Opeth Ghost Reveries and the like...although I'm still doing some critical listening to see how to get there

Couple of things to forgive me for:
(1) havent balanced out the snare hits yet so some drastic jumps....should have that sorted by the weekend
(2) forgive the sloppy guitar playing( no excuses here)

here you go

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=305080
cheers
Blue

 

[derekmoffat]

hey man. here are some suggestions:

the drums have no body to them.

they need to thickened. mess with superior a bit and adjust your levels.

i'd put more low end on the guitar as well, and possibly low pass them at 12khz or so. just lacks the meaty tone.

where did you hi pass them? any low pass?

 

[bluepowder]

guitars are high passed at 60 hz
low passed at 11 khz

I Eq'd the guitars in a wierd way, I had 3 EQs going kept adding eq until i got some level of clarity, Ive attached the screenshot below, my guitar tone is coming from the gearbox of the line6 ux1...havent yet found a great patch on the pod, guitars are tuned standard, was going for an opethish guitar tone

BASS Eq:
Ive cut at 120-200, cut at 4K, pushed at 900-1100, pushed at 40hz and highpassed at 30

Kick
high passed at 60, pushed at 100, big cut at 270, big push at 4200 and 6100, low pass at 19khz

Snare
high pass at 70,mild push at 200, cut at 650, push at 2k and 5, low pass at 10k

any time i raise the low mids on the guitar, i seem to lose clarity, any suggestions on playing this fine line??

thanks for the feedback and a happy new year

cheers
blue

 

[allplaydead]

That is wayyyy to much post eqing on the guitars. If you have to raise any any frequency by more or less than a decibel then something is wrong with the original file.

 

[derekmoffat]

depending on the kick, i usually dont hipass them. i cut at 50hz or so to get out some of the boom, and sometimes add a little boost at 3-5khz for some clicky sound. but i wouldnt push at 4200 and 6100. try taking the cut out a 270 as well, this could be your loss of the "body" to it.

gtrs: 3 Eqs huh? i have cubase as well, i usually dont mess with eq plug ins and just use the cubase eq on the channel itself. the 3 eqs have to be the problem, ive never even heard of that haha take those out and work with one. you could even load a c4 on it and push down the low end on that (joey sturgis).

dont hi pass the snare either. it sounds like it has no low end. see if that helps, not quite exact on it cause im not listening to it on my monitors in my studio but yeah good luck!

 

[bluepowder]

That is wayyyy to much post eqing on the guitars. If you have to raise any any frequency by more or less than a decibel then something is wrong with the original file.

hehe quite new to this.....but you're right...thats what i thought as well but i have 2 main problems:
(1) my guitar tone is not great for metal, my guitar has pretty low output pickups and a loose bottom end(great for some classic rock and blues tho), plus im still trying to get a decent patch from my line6

(2) many of the articles i read advised raising/cutting by large amounts(4-6 db) so i figured it was ok...

ok I'm gonna try doing the guitar eq again...any suggestions

 

[bluepowder]

depending on the kick, i usually dont hipass them. i cut at 50hz or so to get out some of the boom, and sometimes add a little boost at 3-5khz for some clicky sound. but i wouldnt push at 4200 and 6100. try taking the cut out a 270 as well, this could be your loss of the "body" to it.

gtrs: 3 Eqs huh? i have cubase as well, i usually dont mess with eq plug ins and just use the cubase eq on the channel itself. the 3 eqs have to be the problem, ive never even heard of that haha take those out and work with one. you could even load a c4 on it and push down the low end on that (joey sturgis).

dont hi pass the snare either. it sounds like it has no low end. see if that helps, not quite exact on it cause im not listening to it on my monitors in my studio but yeah good luck!

Ah ok..thanks for the advise....since this is my first try, i figured that the different instruments should have inverse EQs to sorta make space for each other..i guess i way overdid it

i will do a search for the joey sturgis and redo the eq... i just went with whatever works but yea at the end of it it was overkill i guess....

I will try out the settings you mentioned and repost a clip, but just wanted to check, what areas should i be careful of to avoid mud?? Also I havent EQd the overhead,amb or comp mix(not quite sure where to start)

ps. i know this is lazy but if you have any articles showing decent EQ settings dun hesitate to post em

 

[ahjteam]

Less is more. Try this for guitars:

AMP: What ever you do, make the sound good here
EQ: highpass at 80hz and lowpass at 12khz

nothing more

 

[bluepowder]

Less is more. Try this for guitars:

AMP: What ever you do, make the sound good here
EQ: highpass at 80hz and lowpass at 12khz

nothing more

hmm ok let me try out this simple eq...but no cutting out lo mids to avoid mud??

ps thanks for the link in ur sig

 

[bluepowder]

new mix with the suggestions in this thread - conflict mix2

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=305080

opinions??

 

[bluepowder]

levels on mix2 were messed up,

adjusted levels, reduced compression on individual tracks.....check out mix 3

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=305080

ps. should i cut some high mids on the guitar

 

[nwright]

drums are still too far back in the mix IMO, at least the kick and toms...Especially the kick. Guitar tone sounds fine for what it is IMO, could use a bit more bottom.

Also, I hate to make assumptions, but I'm assuming your Waves plugins are warez and "illegal"...As such, I think this is a good case of not knowing the tools in which you are using, perhaps.

before jumping in with fancy plugins and trying to fix everything in the mix, read read read up on everything you can about techniques and tidbits from the tracking perspective first before trying to blanket fix after the fact.

 

[ahjteam]

if you need to boost, never boost more than 6dB, after that you get audible artifacts, but generally try to boost as little as possible, rather use the channel fader if it's just too quiet. The general rule I use with EQ is "cut narrow, boost wide", because those sound more natural. And if the amp sounds really digital, try a narrow cut around 4khz


edit: and to nwright's comment that guitars need a bit more bottom, try to raise the bassguitar instead

 

[nwright]

I've never heard anyone say large boosts and cuts are what you want ideally. I think if you are having to do that much work, then the source and how it's captured needs to be reassessed. Obviously when dealing with modeled guitar tones, that doesn't always seem to be the case. In general I tend to think a lot of EQ processing will leave you with a tone that doesn't sound "real" and it's obvious it's been messed with. I think ahjteam is on the money with the cut narrow, boost wide idea, but I usually don't boost much (if anything) on guitars, I just notch out stuff I don't like. Maybe 1-2dB wide boost in 1 or 2 spots perhaps, but that's about it.

In terms of metal and hard rock techniques, I think for me this forum was by far my biggest help in starting out (my first project was my own band in 2006). Reading the stickies can get you a good ways into things.

Also, in reference to the warez dealio, I think you can see the blue Synchrosoft emulator running on your taskbar?

 

[bluepowder]

hmm ok i'll try out the EQ changes....I've actually decided to just track again like u adivsed earlier....been reading a few articles on tracking that might help....

ps. the emu is for cubase not waves...im a reaper user but im trying out cubase for its midi capabilities...imo i dun see too many obv advantages over reaper