Some wall framing questions (sketchup content)

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

So I'm separating a basement area into 2 separate rooms for control/live, and I want them to be as soundproof as I can get them. The floors are concrete which will be covered with pergo after the walls and doors are done. Deadlines are coming up, and I have to get the door/wall framing started tonight, which means I need to go buy materials in a couple of hours :zombie: I have a sketchup partially done but still haven't added the window, doors, or wall panels/electrical outlets to the separating wall yet. Currently there is no wall in the room yet.

I've been researching the John L Sayers, Ethan Winer, and Gearslutz acoustics forums for a couple of months but I'm really inexperienced with general construction so I'm still feeling a little shitty about this.

1. What type of material would I use to decouple the wall frames from the ceiling/floor/existing walls?

2. Would it be safe to cut a 34" x 82 3/4" area for the doors and just try to find basic 2' 8" x 6'8" x 1.25" doors w/ framing from Home Depot to put in there?

3. I want to put a window on each wall so I can see into the live room. Should I leave a 3' x 4' opening on each side and get custom glass pieces cut w/ framing material? I'm planning on getting thicker glass on one side and angling the side in the control room, is this going to fuck up the visibility? Another option is video monitoring, which would be better for acoustics but potentially a pain in the ass/more expensive/makes the control room more claustrophobic.

Keep in mind this is a rental space, so I'm not looking to go ape shit with the materials since I won't get anything back in 3-5 years, but I'd still like to do the best I can right now so I don't have to do any more structural work while I'm here, and so that I can hear the drum mics fairly clearly without getting blasted by live noise. Any advice would be greatly appreciated; thanks!!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1773803/Birdhouse Squirrel 12.8.10.skp

 

[greyskull]

Space the joist's for the stud work OFF the existing interior walls completely for maximum isolation, it doesnt even have to be much, but even a little will MASSIVE help prevent mechanical transmissions, there is some rubber barrier matting designed to help this further that is self adhesive and sticks to the bottom of the joists before you screw them into the concrete floor.

 

[morpheusmultimedia]

increase the size of the control room if possible.

 

[PhilR]

1. What type of material would I use to decouple the wall frames from the ceiling/floor/existing walls?

You really can't. You could do something like use neoprene strips under the stud base plates but it would still present a flanking path, would be harder to properly seal and more than likely wouldn't pass local building regulations. So fas as the ceilings are concerned unless you're building a new ceiling under the existing one then the same problems arise.

In my own studio we didn't have any way to decouple the floors between rooms as we didn't have sufficient vertical height to built a floating deck structure. However the overall transmission loss is more than adequate. You can feel/hear drummers banging on the floor but with monitors playing it's not a concern. And for rehearsal rooms it's completly fine. Some of the folks on JLSayers tend to get a bit antsy about flanking path issues in studio construction but you have to work with what you've got.

2. Would it be safe to cut a 34" x 82 3/4" area for the doors and just try to find basic 2' 8" x 6'8" x 1.25" doors w/ framing from Home Depot to put in there?

Without seeing the doors in question I couldn't say. My own doors are built using 2x 30" solid-core fire rated doors with seals on all 4 sides. You need to ensure that the framing structure around the door is strong enough to take the weight, so read up on doorway framing standards.

3. I want to put a window on each wall so I can see into the live room. Should I leave a 3' x 4' opening on each side and get custom glass pieces cut w/ framing material? I'm planning on getting thicker glass on one side and angling the side in the control room, is this going to fuck up the visibility? Another option is video monitoring, which would be better for acoustics but potentially a pain in the ass/more expensive/makes the control room more claustrophobic.

In all honestly to do a proper window that matches the acoustic qualities of a proper 2-leaf framed wall with 1" of drywall either side you're looking like spending as much money on glass as you would on a decent video monitoring system anyway. I recorded in a local college that used 2 panels of ordinary domestic double glazing and it seemed to do the job well enough though. Angling the panes is for deflecting light reflections.

 

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

Space the joist's for the stud work OFF the existing interior walls completely for maximum isolation, it doesnt even have to be much, but even a little will MASSIVE help prevent mechanical transmissions, there is some rubber barrier matting designed to help this further that is self adhesive and sticks to the bottom of the joists before you screw them into the concrete floor.

Good to know, thanks!

increase the size of the control room if possible.

Unfortunately I think I'm stuck with what I've got. The other empty room is the furnace room, and there's a bunch of weight bearing walls/ducting that I can't remove.

You really can't. You could do something like use neoprene strips under the stud base plates but it would still present a flanking path, would be harder to properly seal and more than likely wouldn't pass local building regulations. So fas as the ceilings are concerned unless you're building a new ceiling under the existing one then the same problems arise.

In my own studio we didn't have any way to decouple the floors between rooms as we didn't have sufficient vertical height to built a floating deck structure. However the overall transmission loss is more than adequate. You can feel/hear drummers banging on the floor but with monitors playing it's not a concern. And for rehearsal rooms it's completly fine. Some of the folks on JLSayers tend to get a bit antsy about flanking path issues in studio construction but you have to work with what you've got.

That puts my mind at ease. I think it'll be quiet enough for what I need

Without seeing the doors in question I couldn't say. My own doors are built using 2x 30" solid-core fire rated doors with seals on all 4 sides. You need to ensure that the framing structure around the door is strong enough to take the weight, so read up on doorway framing standards.

I ended up buying on a whim some plain looking (but extremely heavy) 32" solid-core 20min fire rated doors with the hinges routed out on the side for $54/door at Lowe's. Luckily the guy that runs the teaching studio upstairs knew how to frame it in because I sure didn't

In all honestly to do a proper window that matches the acoustic qualities of a proper 2-leaf framed wall with 1" of drywall either side you're looking like spending as much money on glass as you would on a decent video monitoring system anyway. I recorded in a local college that used 2 panels of ordinary domestic double glazing and it seemed to do the job well enough though. Angling the panes is for deflecting light reflections.

After we framed in the door last night I realized that if I were to frame in a window on the other side of the wall it would only give me a line of sight into the south wall in the other room. It would also be on a first reflection point. Then I convinced myself that I could just do video monitoring and it would be easier, and probably less embarrassing than installing two windows improperly. So I'm glad that you suggested this, I feel much better about it now I hadn't seen anyone doing this locally so I didn't know if it was financially reasonable. I could even do a 4-way system so that I can see if whiggers are trying to sneak up on me from outside of the building.


Thanks for the advice, bros!

 

[morpheusmultimedia]

There is really no way to achieve decoupling without floating the slab and building the walls on the floated structure. When I was planning my studio I spent a lot of time researching and asking questions. First I wanted a lightweigth wodden floated floor. Than I was told that this type of structure can cause acoustic problems because of the light weigth so it's resonating frequency could be over 20 hz what's generally in the area we can hear. Ended up with a floating 7cm thick concrete slab, one for each room.

Basically the answers I was getting were either build a concrete floating floor or simply none. Anway if you keep an airspace of around 20 cm between the walls and if you put up 2 layers of gypsum sandwiched with green glue you would be pretty fine.

If you are interested check out my build thread over on GS

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/phot...cts/378304-finally-building-my-new-place.html

You can find a lot of pics from the construction of the rooms.

 

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

Good studio thread, the pics look great btw! Thanks for the advice; I think I'm gonna buy a case of green glue on eBay and call it good.