Songwriting in DT

[Silentjohan]

I was listening to Damage done this morning and i started to think how the songwriting works in the DT camp. I've always been thinking of this...what counts as contribution in songwriting? For a long time I thought that the guitar-riffs were the song...but now i know it's much more. As an example: Monochromatic stains was written by Jivarp and Brändström but did they do the guitar-riffs?

Have you thought about this or is it just me?

 

[Misanthrope]

I hope DT is a very organized band because if not, thats a very difficult question to ask.

In my band when we just have 10 songs me and Pedro ( the other guitar player ) sometimes cant tell wich riffs belong to who, and we are only 2 guys doing all the music. Multiply that for more than 10 years and 6 records and a lot more people involved in the song writting...if you are not a very organized band it will get confusing.

 

[Silentjohan]

Yeah I know.
But since everyone(except stanne) has written something for "damage done" I guess they are pretty organized...

But i wonder how the Jivarp/brändström duo got the Monochromatic credit?(it may be a dumb question )

Lets say Brändström wrote the chords for the song and Jivarp had a few suggestions on the structure...but there are some parts that seem so guitar based and I wonder who made those?

 

[Thelix]

I've also been thinking about this.
I'm wondering if Jivarp knows how to play the guitarr?
Otherwise, it's most likely that Sundin or Henriksson had some ideas for for example "Monocromatic Stains".
For example that short moment in the song where a lead guitarr plays a rather odd thing - that could Jivarp impossibly wrote if he couldn't play the guitarr.

Speaking of song writing: one day when I was bored (as usual) I did some counting on who had wrote most of DT's material.
I gave one point to a member if he had wrote the song all by himself, ½ point if there were two writers, 1/3 points if there were three writers. So for example: (Henriksson/Jivarp/Johansson) = 1/3 point to each of them.
Then I summed all and it ended like this:


Henriksson: 20 points
Sundin: 11 points
Jivarp: 9 points
Johansson: 9 points
Brändström: 3 points
Niclasson: about 1,5 points
Stanne: 0 points


So Henriksson wrote about 40 % of all DT music (exception for Projector, which we don't know who wrote what). So now you know!

 

[Silentjohan]

Great information

Btw: I've seen the songwriter credits to Projector somewhere...don't remember where though?

 

[Silentjohan]

Cheers soulburner!

If we add those to Thelix list it would look like this:

Henriksson: 23,5 points
Sundin: 13,5 points
Jivarp: 11,3 points
Johansson: 10,3 points
Brändström: 3 points
Nicklasson: 1,5 points
Stanne: 1 point

And here we have another good example: Auctioned. The song is written by Jivarp alone.
We can draw the conclusion that this man can play other instruments than the drums?

 

[Villain]

And Exposure: Henriksson, Johansson

Originally posted by Silentjohan
I've always been thinking of this...what counts as contribution in songwriting?
Have you thought about this or is it just me?

This is something I've tried to ask them many times, but haven't got a satisfying answer. I made my best to push the question into the FAQ as well, but we'll see if Niklas tries to answer it (and if yes, how will he answer it).

Thelix: I have done similar kinds of "point-calculations", but I tried to cover the difference between "Henriksson, Sundin" and "Sundin, Henriksson" as well.

The best system I came up with was to give 10 points per song as follows:

One songwriter: He gets full 10 points
Two songwriters: The first one mentioned gets 6, while the second one gets 4
Three songwriters: The first gets 5, the second 3, and the third 2
Four songwriters: The first gets 4, then 3, then 2, then 1

The five songwriters thing never came up before "I, Deception", so I hadn't figured that out beforehand, but I guess it could be: 3, 2, 2, 2, 1 or 3, 3, 2, 1, 1

Also, we should note that some songs are far shorter and simplistic than others - a couple of riffs only is enough for songs like Tidal Tantrum, from which Johansson gets 10 points, but from his contribution to a song like, say Of Chaos and Eternal Night (which has a zillion riffs), he gets only 3 points. The reason why Henriksson is so high on your list is that he has written many songs alone (an interesting sidenote, btw, is that Sundin has never written a song all by himself!).

-Villain

 

[DoAsISayNotAsIDo]

Niklas said in a interview that, first they write guitar-riffs then Mikael write lyrics... I think it's the best way to make a song...

 

[rahvin]

you may want to add to the count "the poison well" - jivarp, sundin, henriksson.

rahvin.

 

[Villain]

Oh, and regarding Jivarp, he writes most of his stuff on keyboard / computer. Back when they were writing Haven, Henriksson told me that Jivarp laid the basis for most of the songs and he (=Henriksson) then "transformed" those into metal by guitar - whatever that means.

And about those guitar-based parts on Mono, I'd throw a wild guess and say it has gone like this: Anders and Martin B. have composed the main melodies and song-structure and have then just asked Niklas or Martin H. to "add some nice guitar-thing here".

-Villain

 

[Silentjohan]

Anders and Martin B. have composed the main melodies and song-structure and have then just asked Niklas or Martin H. to "add some nice guitar-thing here".

But still wouldn't the one contributing with a riff be part songwriter of the song?

@Villain: Your system is even better...have you counted everything and made a list?

 

[Cid]

Ask Hedon!


El Cid.

 

[Arch]

It seems like Jivarp has something to do with writing Exposure.

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by Arch
It seems like Jivarp has something to do with writing Exposure.

Ehmm, not according my knowledge. Where did you get that from?

-Villain (tired and confused)

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by Silentjohan

But still wouldn't the one contributing with a riff be part songwriter of the song?

After searching my huge DT-library (full of books and notes titled like "The Wardrobe of Mikael Stanne", "The Secret Meaning behind the Lyrics of Still Moving Sinews", "What Niklas Sundin Usually Has for Breakfast", or "What has a Smelly Polecat to do with Dark T."), I came upon the information that the band considers the one who initially wrote the main melody-line the songwriter - if someone later changes that main melody to any direction (by turning it into a guitar-riff, for example) he won't get any credit. If he wants to get some, he must come up with a melody of his own.

After all, the band eventually arranges the songs to their final form all together, so there must be many uncredited pieces and innovations on almost every song by all band-members.

@Villain: Your system is even better...have you counted everything and made a list?

I did one, but it is now outdated by DD - I'll try to write it anew in a few days.

-Villain

 

[Silentjohan]

@Villain: hyvää!(spell correction?) You sure know your tranquillity

Post the list here when it's done?

 

[Arch]

Originally posted by Villain


Ehmm, not according my knowledge. Where did you get that from?

-Villain (tired and confused)

In my opinion, Exposure seems to be based around the drummings (which is very impressive.) But then again, I wouldn't question Dr. Tranquillity's authority, would I?

 

[Silentjohan]

Exposure seems to be based around the drummings

But then again....the drums isn't the melody in the song...
He sure was a part of the songwriting(jivarp) but I think you should trust doctor Tranquillity on this one

 

[Villain]

Okay, here are "da points":

System:
1 - 10 p
2 - 6 + 4 p
3 - 5 + 3 + 2 p
4 - 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 p
5 - 4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 p

Skydancer:
Sundin: 43
Henriksson 41
Jivarp: 6

Of Chaos and Eternal Night (no points for Alone '94):
Sundin: 10
Johansson: 10
Henriksson: 8
Jivarp: 2

The Gallery:
Henriksson: 52
Sundin: 30
Johansson: 18
Jivarp: 10

Enter Suicidal Angels (no points for Archetype):
Johansson: 14
Sundin: 12
Jivarp: 4

The Mind's I (no points for Zodijackyl Light):
Johansson: 37
Henriksson: 34
Sundin: 33
(Palm: 6)

Projector (Exposure included):
Henriksson: 41
Jivarp: 25
Sundin: 22
Johansson: 12
Stanne: 10

Haven (Cornered included):
Henriksson: 51
Jivarp: 37
Brändström: 26
Nicklasson: 6

Damage Done (both "bonus-tracks" included):
Henriksson: 52
Jivarp: 46
Brändström: 11
Sundin: 11
Nicklasson: 10

Total: (730 points = 73 songs)
Henriksson: 279 = 38 %
Sundin: 161 = 22 %
Jivarp: 130 = 18 %
Johansson: 91 = 12 %
Brändström: 37 = 5 %
Nicklasson: 16 = 2 %
Stanne: 10 = 1 %
(Palm: 6)

So, all in all, we can see that Martin H. has composed more than a third of DT's music, while Niklas has done less than a quarter and the others even less. Jivarp rose above Fredrik with DD and Martin B. is coming fast behind.

I could do the same for lyrics, but with only two participants, that wouldn't be as interesting as this was.

-Villain

 

[Wanderingblade]

From interviews, they seem to indicate they're all adding bits to the songs, which IMO makes any such system impossibly flawed... Anders is certainly an impressive song writer for a drummer, and I've always wondered if he played other instruments...