Songwriting workflow

[Downtuned]

I'm just wondering how you guys go about your songwriting workflow in conjunction with production.

I only ask because I find it almost impossible to write a song without a decent guitar tone at the ready to get a feel for the riffs, but as so much of tone is not only down to playing and gear but post production, bass & mixing tricks I always end up messing around too much with the tone instead of actually writing the song.

I use amp sims so it's more a question for those that use them as well.

Do you play your guitar and get a feel for the tone on it's own first then lay it down or do you just pick any old scratcher of a sound and lay down the riffs first and get the whole song recorded then work on tones?

Also on a sort of related question, I know a lot of people mix into a master bus chain and I'm guilty of mixing into waves SSL comp and L2 while I'm writing but I'm unclear as to what to look for when checking the differences by bypassing every now and then. Should the differences in volume and clarity be negligible and just sound more together or are vast changes a good thing and are a sign that the chain is doing it's job.

Thanks all!

 

[RichS]

I do a lot of pre-production just so I can hear how things are going to shape up. I use amp sims, they are easy to set up and can usually give me an accurate representation fairly quick.

I lay down all the DI's and get the tracking done before I worry about sounds or mixing. Once my tracking is done I send out for re-amping.

Even with drums I just load up a default superior kit.

 

[StefTD]

most of the songwriting that I do (actually especially for my death metal stuff) is done on an old
fucked up acoustic guitar After I got all the riffs and so on, I turn my pc on and play the stuff
with my guitar with ampsims, sounds decent, I record the riffs with a clicktrack, add some basic
drums, rerecord guitars, redo the drums to the new guitars, finish it

 

[Vicioushead]

I think if you spend too much time obsessing about details you'll end up getting nothing done at all.

 

[schwinginbatman]

If I even write with an amp on, it's typically just a POD Farm preset I use for just dicking around. I'm far more focused on the riffs when I'm writing, and it's only when a song forms that I care about how the tone is.

 

[StefTD]

yeah, about the sound thing, I play around with sounds quite often, but I got a few "go-to" presets
like "technical death metal" "grindcore" "bluesrock" and so on, I just use these presets for tracking my
first ideas, it's simple and fast.
If I get a idea I may forget fast I just use my iphone and record a memo.

 

[RichS]

most of the songwriting that I do (actually especially for my death metal stuff) is done on an old
fucked up acoustic guitar

lol, death unplugged. That's awesome!

 

[Downtuned]

Thanks for the reply's.

I write a lot of melodic stuff so a lot of the time both guitars are doing something different or harmonised and the bass is doing some sort of root chord progression so I don't know how it will work until I record all the parts down and play it back and that's when I'm tempted to start twiddling because I can hear things I don't like and I rarely these days get by a first verse.

I've always had problems getting tones that blend well with the mix. No matter how many (or how few) cuts, filters, notches etc. I do there always seems to be separation from the bass and either excessive high mid mushy fizz or low mid boxiness (or both)

I'm slowly getting the hang of it and experimenting with multiband compressors on the master bus seems to help a bit but I will probably need a mindset change when it comes to writing and just get on with it and ignore any urge to tweak mix wise at this stage.

But it's good to hear what folk do so keep the reply's coming!

 

[JohnGalloway]

I write everything in Guitar Pro. Started off not knowing how to use it at all and with terrible theory knowledge, but after a couple months, you become very adept at the program.

Always write the guitars first. When guitars are done, write bass, and import to Cubase to program drums on Superior. Then record guitars and voila!
I found a "tone" on guitar pro that is pretty metal. Lots of gain. The perfect amount of edge for palm mute stuff so that I can get a very proper preview of what it'll sound like versus a real guitar.

 

[Downtuned]

Thanks for the reply's.

I write a lot of melodic stuff so a lot of the time both guitars are doing something different or harmonised and the bass is doing some sort of root chord progression so I don't know how it will work until I record all the parts down and play it back and that's when I'm tempted to start twiddling because I can hear things I don't like and I rarely these days get by a first verse.

I've always had problems getting tones that blend well with the mix. No matter how many (or how few) cuts, filters, notches etc. I do there always seems to be separation from the bass and either excessive high mid mushy fizz or low mid boxiness (or both)

I'm slowly getting the hang of it and experimenting with multiband compressors on the master bus seems to help a bit but I will probably need a mindset change when it comes to writing and just get on with it and ignore any urge to tweak mix wise at this stage.

But it's good to hear what folk do so keep the reply's coming!

 

[Charlie E.]

I record all my ideas into my iphone. Usually I have to resort to whatever is around which is usually a cheap classical guitar or a crappy squier with 3 year old strings. (my ideas rarely pop into my head when I'm home)
I'm not usually concerned with sound because I have a pretty good imagination so I have a good idea of what the final sound is going to be like with drums, bass, vocals and all. In fact almost all of my ideas are recorded unplugged so I have to put the phone really close to the guitar when I'm unplugged on an electric.
For harmonies I simply record both parts. You can usually just imagine the main riff while you play it to know whether it will fit otherwise just play the riff on the iphone and play the harmony over it just to make sure.

 

[TheIllicitOne]

I use an old program called tabit. Very user friendly etc. I set up a track for left and right guitars, any leads or harmonies or anything else go on separate tracks. Bass and drums go on separate tracks. This way I can write and tweak to my hearts content. Sometimes I'll start w drums if I've got a cool rhythmic idea, most of the time though I start with guitars. I can pan things around and get a rough idea of how I want it to be even before I lay anything down. By time the song is finished, I already have my midi drum track so it's just a matter of some velocity editing and humanizing when I'm ready. Then I worry about tone.

 

[ArnaudM]

Depends on the mood actually.

I changed a lot my workflow some years ago because I have been injured and it prevented me from playing guitar for three years. Today I have recovered my left hand, so things are maybe even more complicated hehehe.

Before the incident, I wrote music on my guitar and, as I was not skilled enough (and it was the time recording on a computer was nearly impossible - and the multitracks tape recorders, even the smallest ones, were horribly expansive), I tried to know my riffs by heart. Sometimes it worked, sometimes I lost the riffs I found. Then, I used a one track tape recorder with a rotten microphone in front of my 10 W amplifier.

I performed this way from 1992 to 2000. In 2000, I've had to demo the first Alkemyt album to prepare the real studio session. That was the first time I used a computer - just to program the drums and make them play by a cheesy GM synthetizer. I recorded the guitars through a 4 tracks tape recorder a friend of mine had lent me.

When I had my accident, in 2004, I was used to work with DAW. I would write music everyday, programming a drum part, exploring different possibilities and ending up with far better songs. But the time I spent on details was a hell.

I also wrote tabs for my band mates.

Then, I fell in the scales and my life became a bit less fun. It's interesting to know than we need both hands for ordinary life, and that enduring a seemingly endless pain can make you a sinister character. It reveals you the true essence of Black Metal hehehehe

So, I have had to change everything.
First of all, I had to generalize a practice I tried to apply before as often as I could, because it makes you save a lot of time : songwriting in thought. My left hand was almost turned into a stone, so I had nothing to loose.
Nowadays, I think that 99 % of my music is elaborated in my head. I hardly touch my guitar when I compose.

I used a lot Guitar Pro. The sound is horrible, but necessity knows no law, and when you don't have the choice, you surrender.

I recovered in 2007 - 2008. Today, I work the way I like the most, and it depends everyday. Sometimes, when I want something straight forward, I take my guitar and I let my fingers lead me to something simple and brutal. When I think I found something interesting, I run my computer and start the recording process, arrange, re-arrange, tweak and re-tweak the riff until it is beautiful.
I also sing a lot of stupid melodies in my phone. I tab a lot. When I'm not sure of the song growing up in my thought, I record it, because there are sometimes a lot of differences between the dream and the reality.

Various approaches allow me to have fun and to save a bit time. It is true that, in the past, I spend too many hours in front of my computer, trying to produce and write songs. I think this approach is worth doing it when you know the tracks you recorded will eventually end up in the definitive album.

For some months, my method changed : I tab everything I can without recording any note, and open the DAW only if I feel the need of precisely figuring out a detail. And it works very well. I'm faster, and I think also better, because I don't waste any mental energy anymore.

BUT ther's something unforgettable : songwriting is a hard work, and it takes time. Everybody would probably like it to be automatic, like plugin directly into the Inspiration Source and downloading masterpieces. To my knowledge, it's impossible.

That sucks, doesn't it ?