speed picking...tight or loose wrist?

[Dead Winter]

Ok, so I was playing Damage, Inc. awhile ago, and in keeping time with the fairly fast paced riffs, I keep telling myself, "Just move your wrist, nothing else." However, this poses a somewhat simple question. I've noticed that many different guitarist speed pick two ways: really tight, such as Hetfield or Mustaine, and really loose, such as Max Cavalera ala old Sepultura. I keep mine pretty tight, and the benefits of it are you have a much tighter sound, but your hand starts to wear out after about an hour of nonstop playing. Loosely, your sound is a bit more fluid, and your hand doesn't wear out so much, but you can't pick as fast. It's more comfortable, but it slows down your rhythm. I'm trying to strike a perfect medium between the two, and I'm sure it will just come with practice over time.

My question is, do any of you have a preference for picking, and if so, what are the pros and cons for you personally?

 

[matcauthron]

Hello thrashmetal78!

Usually I keep my hand close to the guitar ("tight", as you said), but it's not exactly a wrist-only movement... Let's get clearer.

Playing "tight" is necessary to have a clean palm-muted sound (try the second part of Master of Puppets intro). Most of the movement comes from the wrist, so you have no choice but to muscle it up. What I did for that was playing this like parts of Master of Puppets (especially the intro) three times in a row, three times a day.

This being said, using the arm or not?

I usually feel like using the arm to help the wrist if the riff has up-and-down pick movements (I hope I'm clear, as I'm not too familiar with english vocabulary). Not a wide movement like Max Cavalera, just a small one, starting at the elbow, so that the hand can stay on the string for palm-mutting.

All in all, I'd say go for a tight movement. A wide one like Max's is not really appropriate for technical parts, or your palm-mutting will be bad.

If you can, have a look at the video "Live in Eindoven" by Death. Look not at Chuck but at the other guitarist. The tightest movement I've ever seen, I think.

I hope I was clear... Ask me again otherwise!

 

[FrostGiant]

You should never tighten up. Even though it may look like Hetfield and Mustaine play with their muscles 'tight', they do not. Speed and accuracy will increase as you begin to relax. And you'll also notice the really fast players do not have a wide range of motion (I think this is what you seeing when you think they are 'tight'). You don't want to move to far past the string after it's picked because remember, you have to come back to hit it again. The further past you go, the longer it takes to come back, the slower and sloppier you're picking is. Do not try to increase speed by using you wrist or arm. It will give you more speed, but it's a sloppy speed (and only to a point). Real speed comes from your index finger and thumb moving the pick. That's all you really need. Just take a look at some of those you mentioned. The players that are accurate and fast are very 'quiet' in terms of body motion. And I say this because I have tried every which way to increase speed. This is the best way to achieve it. Not saying that keeping you muscles tight and using your wrist arm, etc. doesn't work, but there are other issues with that. Eg. If you play alot with tight muscles you could have serious health problems in say 20 years or so. There are numerous axemen who have damaged their tendons, etc. beyond repair due to this.

 

[matcauthron]

I agree with FrostGiant. I just misused the word "tight" in my reply (sorry for my not-too-good English).

So re-read my reply with the light shed for FrostGiant and you should be OK.

 

[Sunbane]

I always keep my wrists very loose - regardless if I'm doing alternate picking or only fast downpicking. if you're having a tight wrist, you'd have to use the elbow for moving the picking hand, which makes you slower and more inaccurate. You've noticed that it wears you out faster and you could be risking permanent damage in the long term if you play a lot.

Like Frostgiant says, minimize your motion and play in a relaxed manner. I've always played like this and never had any problems with palm muting. Even with this style, I can still mute as hard as to make the notes go sharp.

'bane

 

[Charlie E.]

While we're on the subject, I have seen players who really clench up when they play fast, and its not a pretty sight.
There's hardly any connection between fingerings and picking and their timing is usually terrible

This is definetely one of the benefits of learning classical. At least my teacher is extremely picky about everything, but it really forces me to play in a very natural and relaxed manner and I love it that way.

 

[Dead Winter]

Thanks guys, that actually helped out a bit. My picking is actually loose, I try to keep things relaxed as possible so I don't cramp up. I guess I keep a very small range of motion with my playing...it's not very wide. I try to be as accurate as possible, and constantly try to stay relaxed. Granted, sometimes you have to tighten up a bit, but I like the feeling of being relaxed. There's no slowdown, and actually it has helped me speed up a little. My thing is accuracy. I want to be as accurate as possible...I can work on the speed, it will come.

Just for clarification, how loose is loose? I classify loose in speed picking as a little bit tighter than just plain strumming or slower picking. For songs like "Battery", I think one has to be somewhat tighter than normal for the really quick, dadada dadada dadada timing of the song. It's not uncomfortable or anything, but it's a little hard to keep up with James on that one. I never play if it's uncomfortable. If it's uncomfortable, then I'm doing something wrong. What do you think?

 

[FrostGiant]

You should never have to tighten up, but it happens cuz most of us haven't been playing for 20+ years. It just takes practice. It's kind of hard to quantify how loose is loose, but once you really start to get there you'll notice. The light will pop on and you'll say holy shit, that's how you do it.

And if you do not have a metronome (or drum machine) get one. That's about the only way you'll really achieve speed and accuracy. Start out slow and play your riff till you nail it then begin turning up the tempo. It's not good to practice your speed and accuracy at break neck speed. Even if you do nail it, it'll probably take a lot longer to get down.

And yes, if you're not comfortable something is wrong. The only part that should feel any discomfort is your fingertips if your calouses are weak. And maybe your neck if your an idiot like me and play too heavy of a guitar.

 

[Feanor IV]

The fact is that if someone plays really tight you will hear it on the result: it sounds as if he does not know how to play and just tries hard to immitate something. Or at least that's the impression it gives me. As for the thing with 'feeling uncomfortable', you really shouldn't, it's a matter of technique and practice Not of course that I don't have thes problems!!