The tone on STD is way better than on "Sworn" though IMO; the latter is unpleasantly fizzy and very nasally honky to my ears, whereas STD to me is more sizzly (I get a solid-state vibe from it, even if one wasn't used, though I have heard that a Randall is mixed in) and as has been mentioned fits superbly with everything else.
Stabbing the Drama
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
P-E
Munchkin
True : "Sworn" has one of the worst Krank tones I've ever heard and is on of the reasons I (foolishly) didn't like these amps before.
Dexter_prog
New Metal Member
to see a big picture is the most important thing. It is very true not only for AE, but almost everywhere. But it is experience and time. Kind of off topic, but still. It was a joke about young and old guitar players. The young one was playing fast as hell and all over. The old one was sitting and picking notes once in a while. Then somebody asked the old guy why he is so slow while the young guy shows such a great technique and so. The old guy answered the young guy is still looking for his tune and that he already found his.
jrt12
Member
its ironic that half the responses above go on to shoot down individual elements of the album that bother them, when the point of your post was that yes... the individual parts are "weak," but its amazing how these weak parts all come together and make something massive and impressive.
i get what youre saying and agree. they took a diff approach, broke the rules and came up with a fantastic album production-wise. while i'm not a fan of their music really, this album is actually fun to listen to.
AeternusEternus
Member
- Oct 8, 2008
- 601
- 0
- 16
I had a feeling you'd be one of the ones to get it!
You have a very good instinct toward what constitutes good music and production, which was evidenced by how quickly you incorporated more advanced production elements in your own music when made aware of their existence. No surprise there at all!
I agree with the rest of you guys about the guitars. If you look up, it was one of the first things I conceded. The guitars have a very odd forward midrange. It's not smooth or full, but very peaky, and almost on the border of honky... in fact the only thing that probably stops them being honky is the lack of the aforementioned low mids.
But that seems to be Bergstrand's thing. He has very odd ways of capturing guitar tones, yet the way he utilizes them in his mixes with surgical precision is beautiful...
I mean just listen to Destroy Erase Improve, done in '96, which still in many ways holds up to modern productions. The guitar tone alone is horrid, but when augmented by that glorious bass grind, you have the completed picture. He really is a 'sum of the parts' man, who just has an amazing insight as to what elements work together to create something larger than the individual.
Albums like KSE's 'EoH' might have a glorious rhythm guitar sound, and a pretty snappy snare, but when you put those aside and just do a 2 second A/B next to STD, the importance of the sum of those parts instantly hits you. STD makes EoH sound like a demo production when played right alongside. This was something I discussed many times with Bernhard before he disappeared off the face of the planet (again). He was one of the folks here who had a great grasp on engineering, even though he was very new to it.
The individual elements are good to focus on if you want to endear yourself to a specific demographic (ie. guitar players) but if you want to appeal on a broader sense, and truly do the music justice, you need to sculpt that shit like an ancient Roman.
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Agreed, STD works very well as a whole, disregarding the individual elements that aren't exactly your everyday holy grail of metal tones. But then again, IMHO, Sworn to a great divide is exactly the opposite: I pretty much dislike the guitars and the drums so much I can't enjoy the production as a whole.
Another album that sounds horrible to most is In Flames' A sense of purpose. Strange, unbalanced guitar tones, kinda muffled drums and so on, but god damnit I just love how it all sounds together. It gives a whole different feeling to the album, and to my ears it works. It was actually this album that made me venture away from my go-to methods on approaching a metal mix.
Another album that sounds horrible to most is In Flames' A sense of purpose. Strange, unbalanced guitar tones, kinda muffled drums and so on, but god damnit I just love how it all sounds together. It gives a whole different feeling to the album, and to my ears it works. It was actually this album that made me venture away from my go-to methods on approaching a metal mix.
Sacha
Throbbing Member
It's a cool production for sure but I enjoy Natural Born Chaos a lot more, both sonically and musically. That album sounds like a band firing on all cylinders.
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
I figured out why I don't really like this mix.
While yeah, the mix as a whole works, it doesn't hide the fact that each element is pretty bad. You can still hear the tubbiness of the drums, the.. shittiness of the guitars. Whereas in a mix like Come Clarity, where you have fizzy guitars, typewriter kick, etc. when it all comes together, the elements hide the bad parts, and bring out the good parts. The fizziness is hidden and you get an awesome but not harsh guitar tone. The typewriting kick is gone and the room sound is brought out like crazy.
But, again, I don't have the system to appreciate the lowend. But if you were to put a highpass on this mix, Ermz, at say 150hz, would you still think its godly? or is it just the low-end that has you loving it so much?
While yeah, the mix as a whole works, it doesn't hide the fact that each element is pretty bad. You can still hear the tubbiness of the drums, the.. shittiness of the guitars. Whereas in a mix like Come Clarity, where you have fizzy guitars, typewriter kick, etc. when it all comes together, the elements hide the bad parts, and bring out the good parts. The fizziness is hidden and you get an awesome but not harsh guitar tone. The typewriting kick is gone and the room sound is brought out like crazy.
But, again, I don't have the system to appreciate the lowend. But if you were to put a highpass on this mix, Ermz, at say 150hz, would you still think its godly? or is it just the low-end that has you loving it so much?
CatharsisStudios
trcksngsrpbngs
- Jun 25, 2008
- 2,198
- 10
- 38
there is your problem.
have you seen the wav forms for lady gagas music ITS NOT SMASHED. you need to analyze your refrence.
gabriel g.
Member
I hate Soilwork but the production of the last Soilwork albums are amazing....
For me a great production means:
-All mix elements work together and work for the music
I love crushing guitar tones but they have to fit the band.
Andy sneaps production of "then end of heartache" fits perfect KSE and the songs!!!!
Very fat-brutal-but tough guitars (like on modern HC productions from Zeuss) and some 80´influences (like the reverb on the snare)
Also metal and hardcore productions become very conservative!!!!!
Kick/snare/bass/vocals all in the center
Guitars double or quad-tracked (so you have no phantom-middle)
Then a lot of samples/fake rooms.....
Today I listened to a Lep Zeppelin song (at collage in the Sound-design course) from 1970
Hugh room, 2 mics small A/B in front ->one of the biggest drumsounds ever!!!!
Or Gun´s and roses ->paradise City:
hugh room->real drums
For me a great production means:
-All mix elements work together and work for the music
I love crushing guitar tones but they have to fit the band.
Andy sneaps production of "then end of heartache" fits perfect KSE and the songs!!!!
Very fat-brutal-but tough guitars (like on modern HC productions from Zeuss) and some 80´influences (like the reverb on the snare)
Also metal and hardcore productions become very conservative!!!!!
Kick/snare/bass/vocals all in the center
Guitars double or quad-tracked (so you have no phantom-middle)
Then a lot of samples/fake rooms.....
Today I listened to a Lep Zeppelin song (at collage in the Sound-design course) from 1970
Hugh room, 2 mics small A/B in front ->one of the biggest drumsounds ever!!!!
Or Gun´s and roses ->paradise City:
hugh room->real drums
Machinated
Member
i like it, its different. people are too quick to write off stuff thats not the norm - sure compared to other tones theres all sorts of ways of describing it, but it doesnt make it bad.
tone works well in the mix and doesnt make the CD worse for me, so i have no complaints.
tone works well in the mix and doesnt make the CD worse for me, so i have no complaints.
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
I have that same feeling towards Come Clarity that you have with STD Ermz.
I fucking hate everything separately. But that absolute thunderous bass with those grainy ass guitar complements exactly how the drum have been done and that whole mix in a car with full range speakers Subs to Tweeters sounds fucking incredible!
While I HATE the songs on it, I find myself listening to it heaps just going..
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so nice!
haha!
*granted I'm not exactly producing awesome shit like you guys, but I totally understand your post Ermz, and I get the mix on a whole sounding godly while the elements kinda suck or just and your standard affair etc
I fucking hate everything separately. But that absolute thunderous bass with those grainy ass guitar complements exactly how the drum have been done and that whole mix in a car with full range speakers Subs to Tweeters sounds fucking incredible!
While I HATE the songs on it, I find myself listening to it heaps just going..
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so nice!
haha!
*granted I'm not exactly producing awesome shit like you guys, but I totally understand your post Ermz, and I get the mix on a whole sounding godly while the elements kinda suck or just and your standard affair etc
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
Not sure what album you're listening to, but it can't be Stabbing the Drama. If you can get that tone out of a pod, please send me the preset.
P-E
Munchkin
HDWR
Member
I thought I was the only one that liked the production on this album and it looks like the only one that cares for the tunes! The album sounds so good with subs in the car but crappy on teh boombox with those forward vox. It does get tiring on anything other than a full range system to me. Such a fantastic bass guitar sound. This is a great one for ABing. Maybe I should start doing that! Sworn to a Great Divide is a thumbs down for me in most ways though. A disappointment.
this is the reason i dont like recording brutal metal, and punk anymore. too raw.
@ ermz: your outlook on mixing is very similar to mine. I prefer to work on projects with many separate elements that equally combine to create an orchestra of sound. While some productions sound great with a dry up front vocal, or upfront muddy recto tones, or sounds like it was recorded with a boom box in a trash can, in mono, They just arent my bag.
I think finding a happy medium between the "airiness" and "flavor" of CLA type productions, and the technical brilliance of Sneap ect. is what gives each of us our own style. If our productions sounded identical, the world would suck!
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
- 4,353
- 0
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FWIW, although I think it doesn't top This Godless Endeavor, The Way of All Flesh nor the End of Heartache, it's still a fucking good guitar tone.
