State Sovereignty Issue

[Dak]

Copied over from the news thread:

N.H. Representative tells Glenn Beck there are 20 states with 10th amendment related resolutions pending.

Edit:

Sovereignty Movement
The Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791, and states restates the Constitution’s principle of Federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states and to the people. It is based on an earlier provision of the Articles of Confederation: “Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”

Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering such measures.

For details on the particular bills and resolutions introduced by the above states, check out the following:

Washington

New Hampshire

Arizona

Montana

Michigan

Missouri

Oklahoma

California (I'm shocked)

Georgia

Obviously not a isolated movement. Discuss:

Edit: Anyone else see the irony in this developing situation and all of the Obama-Lincoln comparison rhetoric?

 

[XSASweet]

Sorry for being retarded, but can you tell what it means in laymans terms? I'm super sick and really can't tell what things mean.

 

[Dak]

Basically that almost everything the Federal Government is handling the states want to handle themselves, since obviously the Federal Government is royally fucking it up imo, and apparently in the opinion of the sponsers of these bills.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Yeah, basically The fed. gov't has way overstepped its bounds according to the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, and the States are beginning to reassert their rights over a lot of federal laws.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It's good that they are, and a little conflict never hurt the US anyway.

 

[skeptik]

I really don't trust most states to not be retarded in certain areas.

 

[Zephyrus]

Maine needs to jump on this so we can secede to Canada.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I really don't trust most states to not be retarded in certain areas.

...and you trust the federal government to not be retarded? Besides, the Constitution still applies to them.

 

[Dak]

...and you trust the federal government to not be retarded? Besides, the Constitution still applies to them.

.

 

[genocide roach]

i think this is a good thing. the federal government needs to focus on defending itself.

that being said, i think there is one sticking point with this. the federal government hands out a ton of money every year to states. california, for example, NEEDS that money, because theyre dumb and didnt manage their money properly. other states are in the same boat. if they dont want the feds to be involved, that money could go away.
~gR~

 

[Dak]

i think this is a good thing. the federal government needs to focus on defending itself.

that being said, i think there is one sticking point with this. the federal government hands out a ton of money every year to states. california, for example, NEEDS that money, because theyre dumb and didnt manage their money properly. other states are in the same boat. if they dont want the feds to be involved, that money could go away.
~gR~

Where does that money come from?

 

[genocide roach]

federal taxes which are pulled from every state, not just the one receiving the money. some states get more money than they pay in fed taxes
~gR~

 

[Dak]

federal taxes which are pulled from every state, not just the one receiving the money. some states get more money than they pay in fed taxes
~gR~

Which is another problem. But if the majority of federal programs were cut out and instituted on a state by state basis and run by the state, the state can tax as it sees fit and doesn't need the Federal to tax as well to duplicate a job the state can easily handle on its own and imo handle it better.

De-centralized systems are more resilient and efficient, and thats the way the writers of the US Constitution intended the country to run.

 

[genocide roach]

i agree
~gR~

 

[skeptik]

...and you trust the federal government to not be retarded? Besides, the Constitution still applies to them.

I'm fairly confident in my belief that certain individual states on certain issues have much more stupid ideas than the federal government. The federal government needs to be there to prevent states from infringing on the rights of the citizens of any given state. The federal government is also essential to intrastate relations, which are almost always overlooked by the most vehement states' rights proponents. I agree that overall states should have more freedom in some areas than they do now, but I also think that a nationwide framework is extremely important.

 

[genocide roach]

grav has a point, which is something i'm ashamed to say. alabama's opinions on religion and abortion are far worse than the fed's
~gR~

 

[Dak]

I'm fairly confident in my belief that certain individual states on certain issues have much more stupid ideas than the federal government. The federal government needs to be there to prevent states from infringing on the rights of the citizens of any given state. The federal government is also essential to intrastate relations, which are almost always overlooked by the most vehement states' rights proponents. I agree that overall states should have more freedom in some areas than they do now, but I also think that a nationwide framework is extremely important.

This isn't about abolishing a federal government, merely bringing it back within the limited confines of foreign and interstate relations and common defense.

If one state wants stricter laws and one wants laxer laws, they should be able to do that. As long as the the laws don't infringe on the rights gaurunteed in the Constitution.

 

[Ender Rises]

The reality of this is very difficult, tbh. There would be no way to give a poorer state the money it needs for schools and such, since it would be dependant on the tax from the state. You'd end up with a few rich ass states and a bunch of states that aren't self sufficient and go to shit. You think the south is bad now, wait until they assert their tenth amendment rights and fall straight into the shitter due to lack of tax revenue, especially when people start moving to the richer states that have the better schools and hospitals and houses and streets and etc. The more you look at how this would actually work the more problems there are.

 

[Dak]

The reality of this is very difficult, tbh. There would be no way to give a poorer state the money it needs for schools and such, since it would be dependant on the tax from the state. You'd end up with a few rich ass states and a bunch of states that aren't self sufficient and go to shit. You think the south is bad now, wait until they assert their tenth amendment rights and fall straight into the shitter due to lack of tax revenue, especially when people start moving to the richer states that have the better schools and hospitals and houses and streets and etc. The more you look at how this would actually work the more problems there are.

This really is short-sighted. Without the bloated federal beaurocracy, the federal taxes would be minimal, allowing each state to tax as it needs. People who prefer more lower taxes and spartan public services would probably congregate in particular states and those who prefer better public services coupled with higher taxes would choose other states.

De-centralization, and reduced duplication would cause an increase in efficiency of tax dollar spending, that the current system is failing at miserably.

 

[challenge_everything]

I would have thought the opposite. States are becoming increasingly obsolete - when they were created, each one was like the whole world to the population because most of them rarely left it or had the ability to communicate with those in other states. There's not really much that the federal government couldn't do if given the power and resources. It seems to me they exist mainly as manifestations of nationalism on a state-based level and as an outsider it's difficult to understand the emphasis on it.