Stereo Enhancers Use?

[chaosmonger]

Well, I have seen in these forums some talk about stereo enhancers (or "imagers" or whatever).

The general consensus seems to be like they are a no-no for mastering (and I can absolutely agree with that, because I know they'll fuck up my mix balance in favour of panned tracks, hiding my centered tracks ).

Then, is there any use for those processors in metal production?.

I have tried recently a stereo enhancer in my drum reverb bus, placed right after the reverb itself. I'm trying to make drums sound more "spacious" or "3D", avoiding to make the reverb sound excessive. I have already panned my drums and have used a spaced pair of OH's, watched out for phase problems, etc.

The effect I got was kinda cool, but I only have the drum tracks recorded yet, so I don't have an idea of what it will sound like in the mix, or what effect could it have (good or bad) on my final mastered tracks.

Is there something I should be aware of? do you find stereo enhancers to be useful on your mixes? How?

I know the best thing to do is experiment, but I guessed I could borrow some knowledge and experience from you guys, can't I?

Discuss!!!

Cheers

 

[wishtheend]

I use them on synths, but that's about it. Never liked the effect on anything else.

 

[smy1]

It's funny, I actually diminish the width of my drumtracks so that they are maybe L80/R80 in width. Then everything else that's outside seems so much wider.

I have never been happy with stereo enhancers on anything. I get most of my width through EQing, really.

 

[siegfried]

...or you can use Mid-Side and turn up the Side...

 

[Zuranthus]

like wishtheend said, works great with synths...not so hot in metal cause really, what is there to widen out?? drums should be center along with vocals & 2 guitars at the immediate side

 

[LSD-Studio]

I sometimes like a wee bit of widening on the 2bus....I know, I'm the devil

 

[Omega_Void]

Is there something I should be aware of? do you find stereo enhancers to be useful on your mixes?

Stereo expanders all work by feeding one channel with a bit of inverse-polarity signal from the other channel.

One thing to be aware of is some stereo expanders use a time offset. This means when summed to mono there is comb filtering. This will likely sound weird and fuck up your spectral balance. Any plug which sounds funny when mono-summed is a no-no in my book.

Some don't use time offset and the mono sum will be the same as the input, but at a reduced level. This ain't necessarily bad thing when used on reverb - the amount of reverb you can use on a mono signal is somewhat less than you can get away with in stereo with stereo reverb, so in moderation could make your mix sound better in mono.

At present I'm using three instances of stereo reverb in my mixes. One has left input muted, one has right input muted, and on these the stereo field is expanded slightly - these are fed with the stereo elements (cymbals/OH tracks, toms, synth). The other reverb is fed with centered stuff (snare, kick, bassguitar, lead vocal), and stereo-contracted so that these sounds don't spread out too much from the reverb.

I find this arrangement seems good for enlarging the ambience while still keeping the sounds localised, and also the stereo expansions/contractions means the reverb is never coming from exactly the same place as the source, which should help clarity. I like the way it sounds, YMMV.

For individual tracks I sometimes use expanders on synth, backing vocal, maybe crash/splash cymbals. I rarely use on metal guitar tracks 'cos it often tends to bring out the distortion in a bad way and reduce the feeling of fullness or power in the sound.

Always check in mono, and don't get carried away.

 

[Darkening]

using an analog EQ or comp on the 2-bus helps widen things.

why? analog gear creates phase shifts. why? the L and R sides will not be identical. why? it's the nature of analog. why? variances. why? BE-FAUKIN-CUZ!

this is part of the reason WHY people love the sound of analog so much but they don't realize it. phase shifts can improve the sound by creating the illusion of width, depth, and space.

but you don't NEED ANALOG gear, that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that on analog pieces if you have the L & R side set exactly the same, and then flip L & R and make another pass and then flip them back and invert and check for yourself... they won't cancel completely...

EQ stereo tracks differently on each side. Plugins, hardware, doesn't matter. I'm talking minor differences... just experiment with it and I think you'll find that your mixes will open up and SEEM wider.

A touch of EQ on the 2-buss with minor variances can really help as far as creating depth if everything else in the mix is EQ'd identically L&R with plugins.

The brain is a funny thing and really quite easy to fool.

Magic Eye, anyone?!

 

[chaosmonger]

Wow, good responses in here! ... I'll try my RNC with a subtle setting before the master bus and see what it does ... anyone tried this?.

About the expanders ... well, seems like I'll have to be veeery careful with those.

Any other experiences?

Thanks!

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

The only thing I have found stereo imagers useful for is putting the snare in the center of oddly recorded overheads. Not for stereo enhancing.