Sun has been emitting unknown particles, carbon dating may be completely off

You might be able to get out of the beer you are going to owe me if you can explain #2 below. What checks are you referring to?

I fail to see

(1) why you're so obsessed with the idea that space is just out to get you, given your total lack of reason to believe that it's the case
(2) why you're unable to see that there are already checks in place to prevent problems like those you describe
(3) why you can't see that we don't need a whole lot of information to refute a theory
(4) where the hell you're going with this anyway.

Also, since you asked about #4, I am testing the waters. You and your associates here are helping me out here, one way or the other. Either you are saving me from major embarrassment by proving me wrong or you are helping me build an argument.
 
No, I would have had no problem if he had asked it like that. Go reread his post from my perspective. He was insulting. You've punched at me, but you've been respectful.

The truth is I don't think I've read any scholarly articles on this. But I have read a shitload of books by scholars on it.

Dude... do you realise how idiotic it makes you look when you say "I have read a shitload of books..." without even offering a single title of one of them??? It makes you sound like a pothead who is just trying to win an argument, but doesn't really care about the end result.

I've known "science skeptics" before, and they're absolute incorrigible dickheads! Please don't be one of those.
 
Peer review, repeating experiments, and the bazillions of other things that are as necessary and glamorous as grading homework. It's not like physicists just put sentences next to each other without looking for consequences, possible tests, and making sure that when old results are overwritten the new ones are actually improvements. It may seem like the new stuff is a load of fake nonsense, but QED is about as accurate a theory as we've come up with - the theory is intricate and describes very difficult concepts, but experiments can match the expected results within ten parts in a billion

Jef
 
memes-challenger-accepted.jpg


I'm just gonna say solar flares. The Sun seems to love to fuck shit up with that, such phenomenon create solar winds can actually be detected with a Geiger counter on Earth. It creates shifts in the Earth's background radiations, so that can fuck with the decay of carbon. Solar flare also create radiation hazards for anything above of the ozone layer (like airplanes and spaceships.)

And JBroll, you look identical to one of my exs, the likeness is extremely disturbing :lol:

Edit:

stick-stickly-old-school-nickelodeon-801792_320_240.jpg


Woah, woah, Simmer down guys! I just backtracked this thread and was amazed by the level of scholarly rage. I know that feel, but seriously, this is the INTERNET. The Internet is serious business, but not THAT serious. :rolleyes:
 
That's a genuine question?

You know, we're all here having a friendly discussion in the tavern and then you come try and derail it by insulting me. Thanks buddy.

Oh, you've edited your post. I didn't see it.

It was really genuine, I don't know why you feel insulted. I wanted to know where are you coming from with this discussion. I didn't want to make assumptions about your knowledge and about how deep you explored the subject, so I asked you.

I know I haven't read much papers on astronomy - just a few papers long time ago.

Just tried to join the friendly conversation...
 
It may seem like the new stuff is a load of fake nonsense, but QED is about as accurate a theory as we've come up with - the theory is intricate and describes very difficult concepts, but experiments can match the expected results within ten parts in a billion

Jef

OK, after seeing this and looking back through this thread I now recognize I need to clarify my stance a bit here. No wonder you guys think I'm a moron. My bad there.

I don't think all science is crap. QED is good. I know Feyman's book on it, which is one of the books I have read, is outdated, but it ruled. It was solid, simple, and mostly correct. QED works here on earth (obviously). And it is not much of a stretch to assume that it probably works in other places in the universe. Science is going in the right direction in the quantum level, for sure.

The problem arises when we say "We have a theory on gravity that works well right before our eyes here on earth, but it breaks down when we start applying it to the universe as a whole. We have a different theory that works well with the universe as a whole. We just can't tie the two theories together."

Now if you tell this to a child, and ask the child what the problem is, what do you think the answer will be? The child would probably say "it's hard to see things that are far away. You probably actually have to be there to understand what is going on in the rest of the universe."

That is the jist of what I am getting at. We can see pretty clearly what is going on here on Earth. But we shouldn't assume that what we are seeing in the sky is actually what is out there. Just like we learned not to assume that apples fall down because everything except fire and helium go down. And we learned not to assume that time everywhere is the same.

There is an incorrect fundamental assumption that we are missing somewhere. I think a lot of scientists would acknowledge that possibility. The problem is that we have labeled this assumption "Dark Matter." The label implies that we know something about it and that it has gravity. I have a real problem with people labeling things they don't understand. It's the reason we have racism, among other bad things.

In short, if scientists would stop using the term "Dark Matter" and start saying "we have some cool ideas but we really don't know what the fuck is going on so if you have any other cool ideas let us know" then I would happily shut the fuck up.
 
In short, if scientists would stop using the term "Dark Matter" and start saying "we have some cool ideas but we really don't know what the fuck is going on so if you have any other cool ideas let us know" then I would happily shut the fuck up.

But for now Dark Matter IS only a cool idea and scientists don't say that it exists for sure (because there is no direct proof of its existence, only indirect hints), but that it may be an explanation for how the gravity in the universe is not exactly spread as it should be if we only account for what we can see with our equipment.

A purely hypothetical thing.

No need to be excited about it YET.

So cool down and better abandon this thread, because your every next post makes you look more and more insane and less and less a genius (just a friendly advice here).
 
OK, after seeing this and looking back through this thread I now recognize I need to clarify my stance a bit here. No wonder you guys think I'm a moron. My bad there.

I don't think all science is crap. QED is good. I know Feyman's book on it, which is one of the books I have read, is outdated, but it ruled. It was solid, simple, and mostly correct. QED works here on earth (obviously). And it is not much of a stretch to assume that it probably works in other places in the universe. Science is going in the right direction in the quantum level, for sure.

The problem arises when we say "We have a theory on gravity that works well right before our eyes here on earth, but it breaks down when we start applying it to the universe as a whole. We have a different theory that works well with the universe as a whole. We just can't tie the two theories together."

Now if you tell this to a child, and ask the child what the problem is, what do you think the answer will be? The child would probably say "it's hard to see things that are far away. You probably actually have to be there to understand what is going on in the rest of the universe."


That is the jist of what I am getting at. We can see pretty clearly what is going on here on Earth. But we shouldn't assume that what we are seeing in the sky is actually what is out there. Just like we learned not to assume that apples fall down because everything except fire and helium go down. And we learned not to assume that time everywhere is the same.

There is an incorrect fundamental assumption that we are missing somewhere. I think a lot of scientists would acknowledge that possibility. The problem is that we have labeled this assumption "Dark Matter." The label implies that we know something about it and that it has gravity. I have a real problem with people labeling things they don't understand. It's the reason we have racism, among other bad things.

In short, if scientists would stop using the term "Dark Matter" and start saying "we have some cool ideas but we really don't know what the fuck is going on so if you have any other cool ideas let us know" then I would happily shut the fuck up.

You'remisunderstanding "distance" vs "scale"(and vs "association of environment and its characteristics").

No one ever said our traditional rules only work here. They work at the "human" scale, but don't in a tinier level, or a tremendous level. They don't work in the atomic scale possible (you can't rely on them to describe electron's orbits around an atom, for example, while both have a mass). Most of those are due to the fundamental interaction happening in our world, and the scale matters because of all the ^2 or ^3 (or their inverse) terms in their formula. QED don't work "on earth", they work on the scale they have been designed in/to/for. Try them in the next galaxy on one of its planets, they will work again, and don't tell us "you cannot say because it hasn't been tested there", because it's literally true but it's safe to assume it is gonna work because there is still no reason why to believe some places don't behave the same (unless you're talking about black holes or things like that, but the characteristics then of the environment where you would try to apply them wouldn't permit them)

The colored quote just doesn't make sense to me... Or maybe you're implying scientists named it "dark" (black) matter and that is racist, and your ears hear "Nigga Matter" everytime ? (i actually said just cause I found it funny, nothing else)

I don't see any problem with the term. Dark Matter implies we don't know yet what it is, what is the problem with that ? It could have been named after the first guy who had the idea of making it up, or Pineapple Matter. So you want us to unlabel it, how practical will it be to talk about it ?

You know in science we usually name an unknown to its units, if here the unknown has all the characteristics of matter, I don't see the problem in creating a label and an assumed presence of Dark Matter. That is the whole process going on there : write a theory, test it, refute/validate it, then start again

Finally, the gay pink colored sentence just sums up exactly what is happening at the moment : we don't know what it is, so we're working on it, and every help is appreciated. That's the definition of scientific advancement.
 
You'reI don't see any problem with the term. Dark Matter implies we don't know yet what it is, what is the problem with that ? It could have been named after the first guy who had the idea of making it up, or Pineapple Matter. So you want us to unlabel it, how practical will it be to talk about it ?

You know in science we usually name an unknown to its units, if here the unknown has all the characteristics of matter, I don't see the problem in creating a label and an assumed presence of Dark Matter. That is the whole process going on there : write a theory, test it, refute/validate it, then start again


To add to LeSedna's post...

When you are proving a math theorem you often state a premise and work the math until you get a contradiction. That way you proved that the premise can't be right.

So stating that there might be a thing, let just temporarily call it the "Dark matter" until we know what it is, that solves problem in our current theory, before we have proved that it exists and works the way we assume it works, just starts the process of trying to prove or disprove it.

No matter which of those two would some scientists would like to see at the end, every scientists that works on it, in some way, works on both proving it and disproving it. We'll all see which of those two comes out at the end.
 
OK, after seeing this and looking back through this thread I now recognize I need to clarify my stance a bit here. No wonder you guys think I'm a moron. My bad there.

I don't think all science is crap. QED is good. I know Feyman's book on it, which is one of the books I have read, is outdated, but it ruled. It was solid, simple, and mostly correct. QED works here on earth (obviously). And it is not much of a stretch to assume that it probably works in other places in the universe. Science is going in the right direction in the quantum level, for sure.

The problem arises when we say "We have a theory on gravity that works well right before our eyes here on earth, but it breaks down when we start applying it to the universe as a whole. We have a different theory that works well with the universe as a whole. We just can't tie the two theories together."

Now if you tell this to a child, and ask the child what the problem is, what do you think the answer will be? The child would probably say "it's hard to see things that are far away. You probably actually have to be there to understand what is going on in the rest of the universe."

That is the jist of what I am getting at. We can see pretty clearly what is going on here on Earth. But we shouldn't assume that what we are seeing in the sky is actually what is out there. Just like we learned not to assume that apples fall down because everything except fire and helium go down. And we learned not to assume that time everywhere is the same.

There is an incorrect fundamental assumption that we are missing somewhere. I think a lot of scientists would acknowledge that possibility. The problem is that we have labeled this assumption "Dark Matter." The label implies that we know something about it and that it has gravity. I have a real problem with people labeling things they don't understand. It's the reason we have racism, among other bad things.

In short, if scientists would stop using the term "Dark Matter" and start saying "we have some cool ideas but we really don't know what the fuck is going on so if you have any other cool ideas let us know" then I would happily shut the fuck up.

I'm not going to build on what LeSedna said, because it seems like the problems pinpointed there have been covered enough already. What remains now is a matter of cleanup.

First, asking a child what to do is in all honesty a pretty stupid thing to do. It seems wise and 'outside the box' to New-Age pseudointellectual wankatrons who don't have a clue of their own, but when it comes to something that simply requires - not 'suggests', not 'is helped by', simply *requires* - technical prowess that was infeasible to all but maybe a half-dozen people born before 1900, there's not much to say.

What do I mean by that? Let's make sure I'm not just jerking off to how hard some mathematics is, yes? When you have something pseudophilosophical, like 'how to be happy' or 'how to enjoy the sound of poo hitting the toilet bowl' or 'why blue is better than red', there's more subjectivity and touchy-feely stuff than 'symmetrizing the stress-momentum tensor', whether or not one of those is in one way or another objectively harder than the other. In a not-obviously-related way, one of those questions is difficult to solve and the other is even more difficult but still within the realm of thought where we can check our answer. This is a problem with pop-science stuff in general - although a sentence you read out of a Brian Greene book may be as verbose or as computationally demanding as something out of a feng shui book, one of those sentences has deep technological requirements that have been carefully recrafted and reinterpreted for the layman and the other is feng fucking shui and therefore utterly useless cocksweat in the grand scheme of things.

It may seem like "we have some cool ideas but we really don't know what the fuck is going on so if you have any other cool ideas let us know" is a good idea, but consider it from a more forum-related perspective:

You have Dave Mustaine's cellular number (or your other favorite metal legend, I'm not even going to bother guessing more carefully than that), and you tell him that you have this absolutely brilliant idea for a song that could totally revolutionize everything and starts off BOOM bung dung doop WEEDLYWOO dundundunTHWAAAAAARTHPTHBTBTLBTPH chuggachugga and then goes into a bitching-ass chorus about the government not being totally badass. In theory that could go well, but there are some factors preventing that sort of thing from being the canonical songwriting procedure:

(1) You've generally not shown any prowess whatsoever in the general field of writing cool songs, so his motivation for believing you over anyone else with his contact information is shot and therefore his time to spend on you is quite limited to a fraction of the general free time he has to piss about doing what other people have told him to do (which, by the way, is not particularly 'rock star', all things considered)
(2) Although your 'idea' might lead to some revolution in something somewhere somehow, you've left out so much actual detail that there's no way that poor Dave could possibly know whether or not you're on to something without considering all possible songs with that general description in a form that is near the end of the songwriting process and able to survive quite a bit of testing to see if it's better than some other random string of words from some other random guy who told him what he should play, and at the end of the day he could have more easily just smashed the next Hangar 18 together without your help, gotten the best parts of your ideas, possibly hit the same general outline, and not have to spend days trying to reverse-engineer some random crank's inane rambling to get there.

So... the first seems wibblety-wobbley, because maybe you're the next Stephen Sondheim and anyone ignoring you may be an absolute imbecile. Let's assume the best of all possible worlds for you and consider only the second for now: you have some idea, and put into some phrasing it could be nice, but the technical stuff behind it is not at all worked out.

How is this a problem? Well, physicists don't start a hypothesis by imagining how they'd explain something to a layman before working out the details (and if for a moment you think that this is a fault, I must remind you that this is exactly the kind of thing that seems to have made you distrust a few fundamental things here and there), so you can't just start with the civilian overview and field the rest of the questions earlier - in general, with a good idea you have the technique and the detail pretty well sorted before even thinking about 'dumbing it down' for anyone but the five people in the world who know how to pronounce all of the words you're saying. There's the first immediate problem with making anything 'layman-friendly' - if physics was as easy as football, everyone could contribute... but if you can show me a single football coach whose job involves anywhere near as much pure mathematics, let alone the interaction between mathematics and reality, I will gladly destroy quite a bit of what is considered possible about surfaces in three-dimensional space and smoothly eat my own arsehole from the inside out. It's not happening. Even if you perfectly concocted the exact sentence that a well-spoken physicist would use three decades later to convey the basic idea to nonphysicists, it would be such an absolute bastard to work from that sentence to the ideal physical principle that you might as well have just said 'maybe our balls are actually bluer than they appear' for all the help you've given. Your pipe-dream of theoretical physicists essentially being overglorified telethon phone attendants to any random person who thinks that some sentence he squished together *could be a physics idea somehow* is both completely ignoring the incredible creativity of the experts and the field *and* ignoring the most basic technical considerations needed to even see if something predicts anything but a random explosion of reality as we know it.

In short, you make it sound like there's no real work to come up with strings, dark matter, or whatever else is bothering you... and you still have simply no idea of the magnitude of the idea that you don't have. This is, simply put, serious business, and to pretend that, say, dark matter is a cop-out and not a well-thought-out, seriously-investigated hypothesis concocted by the finest minds that didn't go into pure mathematics is an insult to the best of the entire human race.

Next thing... 'dark matter' and your unwillingness to allow such a concept to have a name. Remember what stupid-sounding word was tossed out the window around the time Einstein was ripping off Poincare and getting mugshots and abundant tail as a result? (The 'aether', in case you don't, where of course the 'a' and first 'e' are actually glued together because fuck typing things easily.) That was a gigantic load of wank, as we see now - A CENTURY LATER - but we still had to name the concept and figure out some ways of studying it before realizing that. Welcome to science! Hindsight only works behind us! In your bizarre worldview everything should be buggered completely, but through the miracle of doing physics somehow it's not!) Even if dark matter is obviously absolute nonsense to second-graders in the next century, we'll still have needed to name it something in order to replace it with better ideas, and it's not like naming it has made it real or stopped people from questioning it - and, all things considered, the 'indirect evidence' is pretty strongly indicating exactly the kind of revolution you're expecting... 'indirect evidence' may seem to you like

"My girlfriend said 'cat', which begins with the letter 'c', which is also the first letter of 'condom', which she'd use if she were cheating on me, and if Satan were real she might cheat on me with him, and then she'd be impregnated with hellspawn if she weren't using a condom OH LOOK PLOT TWIST WATCH OUT CHRISTOPHER NOLAN WE HAVE DEVILBABIES AAAAA, so clearly she only said 'cat' because she's about to shove the apocalypse through her slutty pandemoniophiliac twat!"

but there's more going on than you seem to realize. Either dark matter is a thing of some sort, in which case BOOM!, or it's not, in which case we already have a nice placeholder for a super-simple oversimplification of what's really going on. Is that really so troubling? *THEY'RE JUST WORDS*.

Jef
 
(1) You've generally not shown any prowess whatsoever in the general field of writing cool songs, so his motivation for believing you over anyone else with his contact information is shot and therefore his time to spend on you is quite limited to a fraction of the general free time he has to piss about doing what other people have told him to do (which, by the way, is not particularly 'rock star', all things considered)
(2) Although your 'idea' might lead to some revolution in something somewhere somehow, you've left out so much actual detail that there's no way that poor Dave could possibly know whether or not you're on to something without considering all possible songs with that general description in a form that is near the end of the songwriting process and able to survive quite a bit of testing to see if it's better than some other random string of words from some other random guy who told him what he should play, and at the end of the day he could have more easily just smashed the next Hangar 18 together without your help, gotten the best parts of your ideas, possibly hit the same general outline, and not have to spend days trying to reverse-engineer some random crank's inane rambling to get there.

Love you analogies! Just remembered the lemmings one. :headbang:
 
(1) You've generally not shown any prowess whatsoever in the general field of writing cool songs, so his motivation for believing you over anyone else with his contact information is shot and therefore his time to spend on you is quite limited to a fraction of the general free time he has to piss about doing what other people have told him to do (which, by the way, is not particularly 'rock star', all things considered)
(2) Although your 'idea' might lead to some revolution in something somewhere somehow, you've left out so much actual detail that there's no way that poor Dave could possibly know whether or not you're on to something without considering all possible songs with that general description in a form that is near the end of the songwriting process and able to survive quite a bit of testing to see if it's better than some other random string of words from some other random guy who told him what he should play, and at the end of the day he could have more easily just smashed the next Hangar 18 together without your help, gotten the best parts of your ideas, possibly hit the same general outline, and not have to spend days trying to reverse-engineer some random crank's inane rambling to get there.

Jef

I agree with you here for the most part. That's exactly why I keep posting here about my disdain for dark matter. I'm testing the waters before I bring my cool, new, revolutionary song to Dave Mustaine. You guys seem to be knowledgeable. The fact that not even one of you is even buying in to what I'm saying tells me that I have a long, long way to go before I present this anywhere. And I do genuinely appreciate most of the feedback.

Also, I would be weary of saying coaching football is not nearly as difficult as physics. Physicists don't have to make 120 different million dollar decisions every 45 seconds for three hours on Sundays. If there was an infinite play clock, football would be nearly as surgical as physics. But that's an irrelevant, skeptical tangent.

I also want to say this: I find it a bit shocking that not one of you has said, "you know, that Genius Gone Insane guy is obviously crazy, and he's clearly a virgin, but that thing he said about spiral galaxies actually not being spirals is pretty interesting. I took a second look at that picture and I think I see what he's talking about. It's crazy, but it's interesting."
 
“Six billion years ago, there were many more peculiar galaxies than now – a very surprising result"

I'm always wondering how they know this..and I instantly think:
"Are you Marty Mcfly?".

The interesting thing about science is that there are thousands of scientists who contradict each other and say. One scientist is doing a specific experiment to prove it did occur and the other one is doing an experiment to prove it didn't occur. And most of the time they both get the result they were after.

I'm not much of a science man, in the sense that I read into that stuff on daily base. But I'm always open minded about it and do like to read some articles.
 
"you know, that Genius Gone Insane guy is obviously crazy, and he's clearly a virgin, but that thing he said about spiral galaxies actually not being spirals is pretty interesting. I took a second look at that picture and I think I see what he's talking about. It's crazy, but it's interesting."

I don't wanna be rude, but the reason no ones saying that is because about as insightful as "maybe, you know man..., blue.... is actually red but we're just looking at it wrong"

Maybe I've misread/missed something but have you given any real reason why something that is visually a spiral is actually not a spiral?

An inquisitive, questioning mind is a good thing, but some more technical knowledge would help you refine your questions in to something more useful.

edit: on dark matter, i presume you've read the wikipedia article? It's not bad actually, especially if you read the "Main article" links as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
 
I also want to say this: I find it a bit shocking that not one of you has said, "you know, that Genius Gone Insane guy is obviously crazy, and he's clearly a virgin, but that thing he said about spiral galaxies actually not being spirals is pretty interesting. I took a second look at that picture and I think I see what he's talking about. It's crazy, but it's interesting."

Those are called barred spiral galaxies, because inner part look somewhat like a bar and the outer part looks somewhat like a spiral and they had to name that specific recurring shape somehow in order to refer to it somehow.

And again, you are giving the name too much of importance. For all we, it might be called completely different in some other language.

EDIT: that's a lot of "somewhats" and "somehows" :)

EDIT2: and to correct my self: the outer part looks somewhat like a part of a spiral.
 
No matter how hard I try to get what you mean about this non-spiraled galaxies, I still don't get it. Why wouldn't it be a spiral if the pictures of all kinds we get from them clearly state they are a spiral ? It has nothing to with being close minded, it's just FACTUAL and opinion is no requested for that.

EDIT :

220px-HAWK-I_NGC_1300.jpg


I mean, we even collect data about the angular velocity of their stars ? And we have found cases of galaxies currently in collision into each other, which is a very helpful way to retro-engineer those cases and refine our models.

About time : ^ What Mutant said. That's also the reason why we cannot determine the limits of our universe using vision and telescopes only.