Switching Preamp tubes on 5150

[OverDriven]

Can you explain how/why Chinese and Electro Harmonix 12AX7s would differ? Isn't a 12AX7 a 12AX7?

Every tube brand has a different internal structure. The getter, the plates, etc are all designed differently. This effects the natural EQ and gain structure of the tube. So every brand (and even some of the same brand, but different years) can sound vastly different.

-Joe

 

[Disconnekt]

From what I've been hearing, JJ 6L6 power tubes are the way to go in a 5150, since they naturally draw more plate current and therefore run hotter on the cold-biased 5150. However, I've heard vastly different opinions regarding JJ 12AX7s in the preamp. If you've tried them, what do you think of them? If you really like or dislike them, why? I'm probably going to retube mine since I don't know how old the tubes are and all my tones have a weird kind of buzzy sound to them. Also, I think the V1 tube is going microphonic (makes a loud, high-pitched pinging sound every time I bump the amp at lead post volume around 4 or 5).

 

[sorceron]

yea i justy bought jj's for mine now im trying to figure out what would be best for the preamp tubes. from what im hearing here EH are good. how is the 12ax7EH? also would i benefit from putting a gold plated 12ax7 in the v1 slot? Ei Elite gold somewhere but havent found it yet. i dunno.

 

[~BURNY~]

My v1 12ax7 top 3:

Ei Elite Gold
Golden Dragon
Sovtek LPS

All three are different but interesting.
But I think it probably depends on what amp you are using.

I tried JJ's ECC83s but I didn't like it, too harsh. But I'm curious about their hi gain model ( ECC883 or something like that...)

About power tubes, I'm an EL34 guy so I can't talk about 6L6. SED and EH are the best to my ears.

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

And of all these valves suppliers where do Peavey get theirs from to put in the 5150s??

Which ever manufacturer is cheapest at the time.

Theres not really that many factories making valves but the diifferent brands have different levels of quality control.

 

[silverwulf]

I'm a JJ fan myself for preamp tubes. Bob at Eurotubes is a great guy and always willing to help. Really gave me a tighter sound with the Recto and gave my clean channel (2 channel model) quite a shimmer to it. I use standard Sovtek 6L6's in the power amp though.

I had JJ 6L6's in an old 5150 EVH head I had a while back and it sounded killer. Didn't care for them in the Recto power amp though.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

Now I must know:

Anyone know what tubes were used during the making of 'Heartwork'?

 

[Ironbird666]

Hey guys, don't think I've posted here before. I was wondering if you 5150 owners had the bias mod done to it prior to switching different tubes. I'm in need of new tubes but first I wanted to know if the mod was worth the trouble. Does anyone have experience with the bias mod?

 

[Disconnekt]

BUMP TIME!

I just got a JJ retube kit for my 5150 combo from Eurotubes. The power tubes sound great, and the preamp tubes beat the hell out of the shitty stock chinese tubes (I can't figure out what brand or generation; they're only labeled 12AX7A with a "Made In China" sticker) that were in all but v1. The Chinese tubes had a weird sort of full-band distortion to them, something I can only describe as sounding uneven... the character of the tubes changed at a very low frequency, sort of a phasing, flanging, or chorusing effect that sounded pretty bad, and the JJs fixed that. However, in v1, the JJ seemed to be way too bright and harsh in the top end, and the Sovtek 12AX7LPS that came in the amp was smoother to my ears. The consensus around here seems to be that the Ei Elite Gold is the tube to have in v1, but I've read in many places that the quality control isn't great in the factory when it comes to microphonics. Some tubes are great, and some tubes ring horribly.

So, a couple of questions about the Ei Elite Gold for people who have it: how would you describe the character of the tube, tonal and otherwise, especially in comparison to the Sovtek 12AX7LPS and the JJ ECC83S if you've used them? And what kind of luck have you had with bad microphonics/how have you avoided it?

 

[black sugar]

I'm going to try to avoid t00b talk like "smoother" and "warmer" so... I would say the main difference is the Ei Elites are slightly lower gain that the Sovtek and JJ tubes that you mentioned. As such, I find them more detailed, articulate, dynamically sensitive, etc. in V1.

But not a whole lot, mind you. It's probably something that only someone really familiar with their rig would notice. They're all good tubes in their own rights, but I prefer the Ei's out of the three when I'm wearing my t00b nerd hat.

I've used them on a few US west coast van tours, and never had any problems with them crapping out or becoming microphonic.

The QC problems might have something to do with the fucking factory being bombed in the late 90's, I think. Seriously.

Anyway, tubestore.com pre-screens them so you'll be fine if you order there. They don't have the "gold" elites, but I never noticed a difference between the golds and non-golds.

If you decide to place another tube order, try an Electro-Harmonix 12AX7's while you're at it. I like those a lot as well.

 

[Disconnekt]

Thanks for the info, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Do you recommend EH for the later preamp stages, or as another V1 alternative?

 

[black sugar]

Do you recommend EH for the later preamp stages, or as another V1 alternative?

Both! I'm using them across the board at the moment. They're super rugged, so they're great in the driver stage at the very least.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

BUMP TIME!

I just got a JJ retube kit for my 5150 combo from Eurotubes.

Which kit did you go for? Standard or hi gain? I've been researching tubes all morning & I'm quite curious.

Thanks,
-0z-

 

[ApolloSpeed]

Standard or hi gain?

5150 has more gain than I could ever use........there is no way I would get a higher gain tube.

I need to look at those EI tubes to chill out the gain a little bit.

I run my pre gain on Lead channel at 4....which is plenty if your using active EMGs

 

[MilkAndCheese]

You generally can't go wrong with 9th gen Chinese in the pre and JJ 6L6GCs in the power. Makes a big difference in the 5150, JSX, Krank Rev, and I've seen that combo in a JCM800 and it worked great.

 

[Disconnekt]

Which kit did you go for? Standard or hi gain? I've been researching tubes all morning & I'm quite curious.

Thanks,
-0z-

I picked up the standard... there's really no reason to put more gain in an amp that already has more than I'd ever need. I'm not a big fan of the JJ ECC83S in v1, though. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly, but the highs have a bit of an odd character to them. The JJ tubes sound pretty good to me everywhere else, though.

 

[nwright]

In reference to the 6505+/5150II the V1 slot is NOT the one on the far right. V1 is the one next to it, 2nd from right. If you changed the pre tube on the far right (the last tube), then you only changed the rhythm channel's tone a bit, not near as much as a V1 switch.

The layout from RIGHT to LEFT on the 6505+/5150II is:

far right - Rhythm channel pre tube
2nd from right - 1/2 Lead 1/2 rhythm pre tube
3rd from right - Lead pre tube
4th from right - Lead pre tube
5th from right - effects loop tube
6th from right - Phase inverter

If this seems confusing, check the FJA mods link posted earlier for the tube layout and the one labelled 1/2 Lead 1/2 rhythm is the preamp tube that is V1. It will change the preamp tone of both channels.

I changed 3 pre tubes, in my 6505+, the V1 and then the other 2 lead channel tubes to all 9th Gen. Chinese 12ax7's (Shuguang's). It made the amp a WHOOOOOLE lot better. More articulate, thicker, more agressive. The EH tubes IMO sucked the life out of the amp. I currently have Ruby 6L6GC's in it, but I'd like to get some JJ power tubes, as everyone says the 9th gen. chinese pre's and JJ power tubes kill in hte 5150/6505 series amps.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Ok, just so there's no question here: If I'm looking at the back of my MK1 5150, and the power tubes are to the left of the preamp tubes, which is V1? The far left or right?

Right now, I'm messing around, doing back to back configurations, same mic positions, and I like what I'm hearing: Best so far is an Ei elite gold in the far left, and an Electro Harmonix in the far right.

-0z-

 

[LT1Z]

I have had the best luck in my 5150 sig head with the following combination.

Tung-Sol reissue’s in V1 and V2
Chinese Shuguang’s in V3 V4 and V5(balanced)

JJ 6l6GCs in the power section.

I tried JJs and EH’s in the preamp but didn’t like them very much. Too harsh and brittle sounding to my ears. Most of my guitars have EMGs 81 or 85s and I run the green channel with the bright switch off pre-gain at about 5.5 and a TS-808 in front for a “clean boost”

 

[nwright]

Ok, just so there's no question here: If I'm looking at the back of my MK1 5150, and the power tubes are to the left of the preamp tubes, which is V1? The far left or right?

Right now, I'm messing around, doing back to back configurations, same mic positions, and I like what I'm hearing: Best so far is an Ei elite gold in the far left, and an Electro Harmonix in the far right.

-0z-

The power tubes are the ones that are inside the head box, sitting vertical in their sockets. V1, V2, etc. refer to preamp tubes. Personally, I've never heard anyone address power tubes in a V1, V2, etc. denomination. Only preamp tubes are referred this way. While power amp tubes make a tonal difference, preamp tubes make more of a difference, especially in an amp like a 5150/6505 IMO. So, if you look straight onto the back of the 5150II/6505+ with the preamp tube compartment cover OFF, you should see the tops of the preamp tubes (they lay horizontal in their sockets) inside the compartment. From RIGHT to LEFT, they are listed as I did in the earlier post. So, V1 is the 2nd tube from the RIGHT in the preamp section.

Mind you, this is ONLY for the 5150II/6505+.

The regular 5150/6505 use 5 preamp tubes, not 6 like the II/+'s. In the regular 5150's, the 3 preamp tubes to the right apply to both the rhythm and lead preamp. the last 2 tubes to the left are the effects loop and phase inverter tubes. In this scenario, I'm not sure which tube would be V1. I'd assume the one on the far left, but I don't know for sure.

AS for changing the pre tube to the far left, that would be the phase inverter, which I would say would have a negligible effect on the tone. I would say whatever you have in V1 is what's making the tonal changes.