The cheapest way to get a generic metal guitar sound (With physical kit)

Cryo114

Cryo114

Member
Jan 8, 2008
609
2
18
Kent, UK
How can you get a respectable and typically modern metal sound on a relative budget?

Certain things are a given for the ball park (or at least I assume so)

Good amp (I have an Orange TT), TS/od of some sort (TS9), sm57, good playing. Good cab too, soon to get one. 2x12 or 4x12 with V30's of course.

But when it comes to guitars, what kinda thing makes up a good metal guitar? Opinions I've heard are generally in favour of EMG's so that's cool. But what about bodywood types? Other factors?

I see a lot of talk about Schecter and ESP but what is it about these brands that make them so popular in metal, apart from the pickups?

I ask these questions because I feel, if I have more of a handle on what a typical "for metal" guitar needs to be I can start looking into how cheap I can go.

Maybe I'm missing a trick here, I don't know. Either way, looking for guidence. Cheers!
 
Cryo114 said:
How can you get a respectable and typically modern metal sound on a relative budget?

Certain things are a given for the ball park (or at least I assume so)

Good amp (I have an Orange TT), TS/od of some sort (TS9), sm57, good playing. Good cab too, soon to get one. 2x12 or 4x12 with V30's of course.

But when it comes to guitars, what kinda thing makes up a good metal guitar? Opinions I've heard are generally in favour of EMG's so that's cool. But what about bodywood types? Other factors?

I see a lot of talk about Schecter and ESP but what is it about these brands that make them so popular in metal, apart from the pickups?

I ask these questions because I feel, if I have more of a handle on what a typical "for metal" guitar needs to be I can start looking into how cheap I can go.

Maybe I'm missing a trick here, I don't know. Either way, looking for guidence. Cheers!
Click to expand...

Typically high output humbuckers are the standard for Metal. Otherwise you really just need to play some guitars, the quality and tone can vary wildy between even examples of the same model.
 
Well, I'll say right now, I don't believe the Tiny Terror can do a good metal tone. You'll get there with some kind of boost, and it'll sound high-gain. But it wont sound tight and defined like a metal tone should.

This will be due to a lack of power, and an EL84 power-stage, which tend to break-up very quickly. In my opinion, metal tones need lots of headroom in the power section, and the amp needs to be cranked so that the power tubes are cooking somewhat - just on the edge of saturation.

The tiny terror also has only 2 12AX7 tubes. If you look at any amp good for metal, they've got something like 4 or 5 pre-amp tubes. So this is also an area the Tiny Terror will fall down on.

Most guys tend to use the tubescreamer NOT as extra gain, but as a tonal shaping circuit. They like what it does to the low-end and the mid-range.

So in short: I'd suggest getting a new amp. I'd suggest initially taking a look at a Peavey Windsor as a cheap solution, coupled with a TS style pedal - I've heard some amazing tones from that setup.
 
enditol said:
Typically high output humbuckers are the standard for Metal.
Click to expand...

Well that's good news. I thought as much.

enditol said:
Otherwise you really just need to play some guitars, the quality and tone can vary wildy between even examples of the same model.
Click to expand...

Not such good news. I'm a pretty long way away from places that would have any kind of amp you'd list for metal. Seems there's the reason why it's still a grey area for me.

Cheers though.
 
drew_drummer said:
Well, I'll say right now, I don't believe the Tiny Terror can do a good metal tone. You'll get there with some kind of boost, and it'll sound high-gain. But it wont sound tight and defined like a metal tone should.

This will be due to a lack of power, and an EL84 power-stage, which tend to break-up very quickly. In my opinion, metal tones need lots of headroom in the power section, and the amp needs to be cranked so that the power tubes are cooking somewhat - just on the edge of saturation.

The tiny terror also has only 2 12AX7 tubes. If you look at any amp good for metal, they've got something like 4 or 5 pre-amp tubes. So this is also an area the Tiny Terror will fall down on.

Most guys tend to use the tubescreamer NOT as extra gain, but as a tonal shaping circuit. They like what it does to the low-end and the mid-range.
Click to expand...

I'm actually quite happy with the heavy sound the tiny terror can get, though I agree, it's not a strictly typical sound. And I use the TS the same way as most people do eg: drive on 0 or 1. Thanks for the advice though.
 
I said "I'm actually quite happy with the heavy sound the tiny terror can get" I didn't say I could get the same sound with just the same amp. (And I mean the same amp literally)

Besides, my question/the thread was more about guitars.
 
Cryo114 said:
How can you get a respectable and typically modern metal sound on a relative budget?

Certain things are a given for the ball park (or at least I assume so)

Good amp (I have an Orange TT), TS/od of some sort (TS9), sm57, good playing. Good cab too, soon to get one. 2x12 or 4x12 with V30's of course.

But when it comes to guitars, what kinda thing makes up a good metal guitar? Opinions I've heard are generally in favour of EMG's so that's cool. But what about bodywood types? Other factors?

I see a lot of talk about Schecter and ESP but what is it about these brands that make them so popular in metal, apart from the pickups?

I ask these questions because I feel, if I have more of a handle on what a typical "for metal" guitar needs to be I can start looking into how cheap I can go.

Maybe I'm missing a trick here, I don't know. Either way, looking for guidence. Cheers!
Click to expand...

Les Paul copy (150€) w/ EMG 81 on bridge (75€) > Ibanez TS7 (50€) > Bugera 6260 (300€) > Harley Benton 2x12" with V30 (200€) > Shure SM57 (100€)
 
THE NECK:devil:


Seriously now.... let me give you an example.
Tele's were commonly used for country and shit.
Now take a look at the Jim Root tele.
See were i'm going at?

You can play whatever you like with anything that is comfortable to you.
Sound wise though a nice body wood with the right pickups can get you close to what you need.I like mahogany, others prefer alder, other ash etc etc etc

It comes down to personal preference really.But in the end the amp is what makes the difference.
 
ahjteam said:
Les Paul copy (150€) w/ EMG 81 on bridge (75€) > Ibanez TS7 (50€) > Bugera 6260 (300€) > Harley Benton 2x12" with V30 (200€) > Shure SM57 (100€)
Click to expand...

Nice!

Does the type of wood of the guitar even matter? (I'm guessing it does, but how much?) I'm mainly concerned with that at the moment since I'm sure I'll get a 6505 combo one day and just run that into the 2/4x12 I'm getting. So even if the TT doesnt cut it i have a plan.
 
*Everything* matters... it just depends on to what degree. I'd say the wood matters a fuck load. I prefer a mahogany body over alder - just sounds juicier!! But even a mahogany body with shitty low output pickups aint gonna do it.
 
Ok.. I think I see what you are asking...

All comes down to taste and preference of course, and for every example, there will be a counter example.

So in my little brain these are my very very broad stereotypes:

Mahogany: Prefferred over all, lots of chunk and warmth, thick midrange.
Alder: Like Mahogany but a bit brighter and less smooth
Ash: Chewier and different midrange (not a lot of these around...at least in metal).
Basswood: More for lead playing, syrupy, a bit muddy.. Think Satch, Vai, Petrucci
Maple: Bright upper midrange, lots of pick attack.

My personal preference is Mahogany with a Maple top, sort of balances it out. But I do like my tone cutting, responsive and a bit brighter. I love Ash on basses and non-metal tones.

Neckwood matters too, most guitars have Maple Necks, Les Pauls/PRS are all Mahogany. I prefer Maple Necks, for that additional bit of brightness.

Quality of the wood matters big time as well. A cheap-ass basswood guitar is not going to sound the same as a real Music Man Petrucci or JEM. But there are gems in the cheap guitar realm. Usually have to go through a few of the same model to find one not made with crap wood.

Fretboard:
Ebony: Preferred, plenty of attack with warmth and chunk.
Rosewood: Warm, balanced, very typical
Maple: More for strats and tele's, a bit twangy but bright and cutting.

Personal preference is Ebony, but I only have one guitar with it, Rosewood is the norm and what I use most of the time. Ebony all the way on Classical guitars. I prefer maple fretboards on Bass interestingly.

Pickups:
Actives/EMG: A bit compressed, lots of pick attack, great for cutting riffs.
HQ Passives/Duncan/Dimarzio/BareKnuckle: More balance, warmer, chunky, smoother, looser, thicker midrange.
Cheap Stock Passives: Generally muddy, washy, lack midrange.

I prefer passives, but many more prefer actives. Just a preference thing.

So... yeah depends on what you are going for. All preference of course, smooth for instance is not what you want, maybe more cut, or more chunk, or whatever.

And pickup tones vary immensely and can often counterbalance wood properties. Then of course the rest is in your hands. How you pick, how you fret, your vibrato, etc. I would say matters just as much if not more than any of this. Same with amps, boosting, EQ, etc.. So it is all about the whole package.

Start with fingers and go from there, if you can make an acoustic or unplugged electric sound heavy, you can sound heavy through anything!
 
So then to actually answer your question, cheapest way is to grab any ol' piece of shit, swap the pickups and play your ass off. Assuming it can intonate and you can make it playable. Some of the most legendary guitar tones were made with home-grown Frankensteins covered in electrical tape.

If you actually care a bit more, I think you can do very well with a nice import in the $500-$900 range. IMO once you get higher than that, it starts to come down more to playing preference or endorsements or getting more particular in your tone and connecting with your guitar.
 
aortizjr said:
Ok.. I think I see what you are asking...

All comes down to taste and preference of course, and for every example, there will be a counter example.

So in my little brain these are my very very broad stereotypes:

Mahogany: Prefferred over all, lots of chunk and warmth, thick midrange.
Alder: Like Mahogany but a bit brighter and less smooth
Ash: Chewier and different midrange (not a lot of these around...at least in metal).
Basswood: More for lead playing, syrupy, a bit muddy.. Think Satch, Vai, Petrucci
Maple: Bright upper midrange, lots of pick attack.

My personal preference is Mahogany with a Maple top, sort of balances it out. But I do like my tone cutting, responsive and a bit brighter. I love Ash on basses and non-metal tones.

Neckwood matters too, most guitars have Maple Necks, Les Pauls/PRS are all Mahogany. I prefer Maple Necks, for that additional bit of brightness.

Quality of the wood matters big time as well. A cheap-ass basswood guitar is not going to sound the same as a real Music Man Petrucci or JEM. But there are gems in the cheap guitar realm. Usually have to go through a few of the same model to find one not made with crap wood.

Fretboard:
Ebony: Preferred, plenty of attack with warmth and chunk.
Rosewood: Warm, balanced, very typical
Maple: More for strats and tele's, a bit twangy but bright and cutting.

Personal preference is Ebony, but I only have one guitar with it, Rosewood is the norm and what I use most of the time. Ebony all the way on Classical guitars. I prefer maple fretboards on Bass interestingly.

Pickups:
Actives/EMG: A bit compressed, lots of pick attack, great for cutting riffs.
HQ Passives/Duncan/Dimarzio/BareKnuckle: More balance, warmer, chunky, smoother, looser, thicker midrange.
Cheap Stock Passives: Generally muddy, washy, lack midrange.

I prefer passives, but many more prefer actives. Just a preference thing.

So... yeah depends on what you are going for. All preference of course, smooth for instance is not what you want, maybe more cut, or more chunk, or whatever.

And pickup tones vary immensely and can often counterbalance wood properties. Then of course the rest is in your hands. How you pick, how you fret, your vibrato, etc. I would say matters just as much if not more than any of this. Same with amps, boosting, EQ, etc.. So it is all about the whole package.

Start with fingers and go from there, if you can make an acoustic or unplugged electric sound heavy, you can sound heavy through anything!
Click to expand...

Good post. [/thread]
 
aortizjr said:
Ok.. I think I see what you are asking...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the massive post man! This is exactly what I needed, I originally thought mahogany with actives was a good bet, but I wasnt sure. The basswood (whateverthefuckitis) and mahogany bodies, rosewood fbs I have with stock and Duncans seemed to sound a bit blurry (duncans a little, stock a lot) with metal.

So it's nice to confirm my thinking. Thats all i was out to do, since all of you have an often a serious amount of experience I just wanted to put it past all of you instead of potentially wasting money.

I have an mahogany LP which sounds and feels good so I may just get another and put an emg 81 in it.

Cheers for the advice!
 
First off GOOD TONE is purely subjective. Whats good to me may not be whats good to you.....

That being said. The normal accepted things seem to be:
High Gain amp - Recto, 5150, Krank, Marshall JVM, Soldano, Mark II C+
4x12 Cabinet with GT75s or Vintage 30s
Mahogany Body usually with a maple cap with a hard tail with EMG's or high / medium output passive humbuckers - X2N, Evolution, Duncan Distortion
Boost pedal - TS9, TS7, TS808, SD-1, DS-1

Thats the "typical" high gain metal setup
 
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