The Fallacy of the Individual

[Planetary Eulogy]

The fundamental building block of Englightenment and post-Englightenment philosophy (and, as a consequence, of modern Western society) is the concept of the atomized individual, self-defining, self-governing, and, in many ways, self-creating. The supremacy of the individual informs modern society at all levels, and remains the chief obstacle to healthier modes of social organization and long-term thinking.

The real tragedy in this is that the individual as constructed by modern society is a myth. Far from being self-defining, self-governing and self-creating, the individual is merely the interesection of genes and circumstance, given the illusion of "free-will" only through self-deception. Individual rights, liberties and other privileges our societies grant are thus based on a false reading of reality, and represent a devolutionary rather than evolutionary development of human society (and one destined for destruction), only by suppressing the selfish impulses of deluded "individuals" can society hope to survive.

 

[Iridium]

Oh, I see what you're hinting at. I think they tried that in the 1920s and in 70 years turned one of the world's greatest nations and peoples into the decaying fallen star that is now Russia.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Oh, I see what you're hinting at. I think they tried that in the 1920s and in 70 years turned one of the world's greatest nations and peoples into the decaying fallen star that is now Russia.

Bolshevism is collectivized individualism, and suffers from the same ideological insanity that props up liberal democracy.

 

[Iridium]

All progress and improvization has come from the human mind. Restrain it and you shall chain any progress to the ground. You haven't proposed a specific solution or an argument for it, so I am going on assumptions.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

All progress and improvization has come from the human mind. Restrain it and you shall chain any progress to the ground. You haven't proposed a specific solution or an argument for it, so I am going on assumptions.

Progress is an illusion. What is good has always been good, what is bad has always been bad. Societies follow both the good and the bad in cycles. Healthy societies suppress the impulse of the stupid and the weak to what is bad for all, regardless of their 'rights.' Unhealthy societies (such as the one we live in) encourage the stupid and the weak to indulge their stupidity and their weakness by protecting their "right" to do so.

Fuck that.

 

[Iridium]

So what we have is your opinion that our current society is unhealthy, that progress is an illusion, and that these things work in cycles, anyway. The logical implication is: why worry about it? Since we can't progress, and since what's unhealthy at one point will cycle to be healthy at another point, why think about it at all?

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

The reason to worry is simple: the current unhealthy society is now possessed of the means and the stupidity to bring about a destruction so complete that no recovery is possible. If we march blindly into extinction, there is no hope of rebirth.

 

[Iridium]

Can you offer any applicable suggestions?

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

The most useful efforts at the current time are directed at undermining the conceptual framework that drives unhealthy thinking, and, for once, technology is a help rather than a hindrance, because it allows for the dessimination of truth outside the traditional channels (which are dominated by people with a vested interest in perpetuating the current system).

 

[RookParliament]

So who should direct society than?

All actions taken by all living creatures are fundamentally selfish. Thats why capitalism survives and evolves, while communism falls by the wayside. The free market is just life given a shape through an economy of resources and needs. I would hope that eventually, before enviromental crises destroy us, a self-preserving selfishness comes into play.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Communism and capitalism are essentially the same ideology driven by the same impulses, communism merely collapsed faster because it more fully undertook the more destructive aspects of the ideology they hold in common.

However, the neoconservative movement and the Bush adminstration point to the further radicalization of capitalist ideology into something not inherently unlike Stalinism (not entirely surprising, since most of the neocons were ex-Stalinists and ex-Maoists who converted to the "conservative" cause over the perceived hostility of the Left to Israel and Zionism).

 

[RookParliament]

Communism and capitalism are essentially the same ideology driven by the same impulses, communism merely collapsed faster because it more fully undertook the more destructive aspects of the ideology they hold in common. QUOTE]

How are communisim and capitalism the same idealogy?

 

[RookParliament]

However, the neoconservative movement and the Bush adminstration point to the further radicalization of capitalist ideology into something not inherently unlike Stalinism (not entirely surprising, since most of the neocons were ex-Stalinists and ex-Maoists who converted to the "conservative" cause over the perceived hostility of the Left to Israel and Zionism).

What? Um... examples?

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

What? Um... examples?

Iraq and Gitmo, anyone?

 

[Iridium]

Comparing Gitmo to gulags is utterly idiotic at worst and far-fetched at best. We treat people who are supposedly the greatest enemies of the nation like silk - we give them praying mats and allow them religious literature within the compound. In the Soviet Union, if you were caught not clapping at a rally to Stalin, there was a very good chance that a black car would appear outside your door the next night and no-one would ever see you again. I am not exaggerating.

Communism and democracy are similar in that they are self-perpetuating ideologies, but that can be said about pretty much any ideology.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I agree with you. I find it a gem, to find another person who can be stimulating on an intellectual level, and not just as a casual level. So many people have a lot to say about nothing these days, they don't introspect on their lives and think about who they are and what their role in society is. They think about the newest happenings on the trendiest shows, or obsessing over materialistic gains. It seems that pop culture is the only thing we should have in common, or so we are told from being bombarded by advertizments.

Also, what I think you were touching on, is that people think an individual means someone who can be indepentant of others. People have forgotten that we are never really individuals because we are the people we interact with. Without other people we would have no sense of who we are because there would be no way of knowing our differences. We just have a lack of virtuous people, strong persons who can create that sense of community amoung anyone.

The problem is the amount of fear and apathy that is created by the negativity. On one hand you have the weak personalities, who are so insecure that if they aren't part of a trend (no matter how harmful) they are lost, and the others who have given up in being an participant of society, and escape into whatever they find works best, be it drugs, games, tv, movies, work, religion ect.

If you socially wear a mask, who are you really fooling? Them or yourself?

 

[RookParliament]

First off.

(not entirely surprising, since most of the neocons were ex-Stalinists and ex-Maoists who converted to the "conservative" cause over the perceived hostility of the Left to Israel and Zionism).

Examples please.

And Iraq and Gitmo are not examples of Stalinism or a descent of neo-cons into Stalinism, the whole concept of which is ridiculous. Its an example of a slow but steady march to a fascism perhaps, or more than likely the age old instinct in all humans for competition. Competing by:
Guatonamo-isolating percieved enemies of the state.
Iraq.-Seizing strategic territory/resources and waging an idealogical battle for headspace. Capitalism/Westernism/Free Market/ "Democracy"/ hell maybe even Christian Fundamentalism/ Support for Israel vs. Fundamentalist Islam/ Opponents of US military hegemony/ Proliferation of WMD (whether real or falsified)

 

[RookParliament]

Comparing Gitmo to gulags is utterly idiotic at worst and far-fetched at best. We treat people who are supposedly the greatest enemies of the nation like silk - we give them praying mats and allow them religious literature within the compound. In the Soviet Union, if you were caught not clapping at a rally to Stalin, there was a very good chance that a black car would appear outside your door the next night and no-one would ever see you again. I am not exaggerating.

Communism and democracy are similar in that they are self-perpetuating ideologies, but that can be said about pretty much any ideology.

Utterly agree with everything you just wrote.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Comparing Gitmo to gulags is utterly idiotic at worst and far-fetched at best. We treat people who are supposedly the greatest enemies of the nation like silk - we give them praying mats and allow them religious literature within the compound. In the Soviet Union, if you were caught not clapping at a rally to Stalin, there was a very good chance that a black car would appear outside your door the next night and no-one would ever see you again. I am not exaggerating.

For your further edification...

However, the neoconservative movement and the Bush adminstration point to the further radicalization of capitalist ideology into something not inherently unlike Stalinism (not entirely surprising, since most of the neocons were ex-Stalinists and ex-Maoists who converted to the "conservative" cause over the perceived hostility of the Left to Israel and Zionism).

The implication is obviously that there is a process of radicalization going on. Stalinism is an endpoint, we're not there yet. But a nascent totalitarianism is clearly evident in the neoconservative movement and in the actions of the Bush administration.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

First off.



Examples please.

And Iraq and Gitmo are not examples of Stalinism or a descent of neo-cons into Stalinism, the whole concept of which is ridiculous. Its an example of a slow but steady march to a fascism perhaps, or more than likely the age old instinct in all humans for competition. Competing by:
Guatonamo-isolating percieved enemies of the state.
Iraq.-Seizing strategic territory/resources and waging an idealogical battle for headspace. Capitalism/Westernism/Free Market/ "Democracy"/ hell maybe even Christian Fundamentalism/ Support for Israel vs. Fundamentalist Islam/ Opponents of US military hegemony/ Proliferation of WMD (whether real or falsified)

Fascism is a very different beast, and one with no real resemblence to the neoconservative movement (with it's universalist ideals and decidedly Jewish spin on the world).