The guitar solo...

[Cheiron]

Everytime I listen to a new metal song or group, one of the main parts of the song I listen to is the guitar solo (partly because I play guitar I'm sure). I often have debates with people on solos. What is a good solo? What is a bad solo? I typically argue that a solo should exist for a song, it should be owned by a song. This means that the solo if played in another song, would not sound right. At live events, or even when recording, guitarists will often improvise a solo. The problem is, by doing so, they are just using the key of the song, and playing a solo within a scale, or even... just ripping through a scale based on the appropriate root note. This means, that that solo, could exist in many of their songs, depending on which root note they are at.

Then you have solos like those by Metallica. They are distinct, and memorable. Live events might have some improvisation on the solo, but the core of the solo is still there. You cannot do the same solo in "Nothing Else Matters" and play it in "Right the lightning." It just would not fit.

What is your opinion on the solo? Should it be filled with emotion, should it be memorable, should it be very technical and innovative, should it enhance the song melody, should it be a nasty shred, should it be distinct from the melody of the song, should it portray some meaning withing the song, or is the solo a instrumental part of the song that doesn't need to convey meaning?

Your thoughts?

 

[OdinsCourt]

Depends on the song. If it is a "jam" song whatever will work.

However, as a song writer myself (with emphasis on the SONG), I always feel solos should be well constructed and include hooks. It is a part of the song and should be treated as such.

And just as a singer may play with a vocal melody live to spice things up, changing up the solo some is okay, as long as the heart is still there.

I always hate it when guitarists throw out a classic solo (like "Crazy Train" for instance) and try to put something new in there. Might as well make up your own words and melody while you're at it...

That's my 0.02 cents.

 

[OdinsCourt]

Oh, and one more thing - EMOTION. Emotion is more than "sad" too, which people often confuse. The solo should be used to enhance the overall point of the song, and not detract from it: in other words, the solo should fit the SONG and not just be a technical show off session. Nothing irritates me more than solos where flash is done/shown just "because they can".

 

[Nightmare1z]

Agreed - I'm at the stage where less is more for guitar solo's. I'm getting tired of hearing the same old techniques being done in albums just so the lead has something interesting to play. Sweep picking, tapping, etc.

The solo should fit the song. The solo should be another VOICE of the song. So many view the solo as the 'I must play as fast as I can' stage. I can't remember - but there was one ProgPower where I specifically noticed the guitarists all showing their tapping skills. Seemed like every guitarist that came on would have to have one song where they did a fast tapping session. Didn't matter if it went with song - just to show they had learned the talent.

I agree with your post. Just way to many bands these days that are clueless on the solo. You can Sweep Pick - great. Don't freaking use it on a key just to use it...

 

[Conti]

Everytime I listen to a new metal song or group, one of the main parts of the song I listen to is the guitar solo (partly because I play guitar I'm sure). I often have debates with people on solos. What is a good solo? What is a bad solo? I typically argue that a solo should exist for a song, it should be owned by a song. This means that the solo if played in another song, would not sound right. At live events, or even when recording, guitarists will often improvise a solo. The problem is, by doing so, they are just using the key of the song, and playing a solo within a scale, or even... just ripping through a scale based on the appropriate root note. This means, that that solo, could exist in many of their songs, depending on which root note they are at.

Then you have solos like those by Metallica. They are distinct, and memorable. Live events might have some improvisation on the solo, but the core of the solo is still there. You cannot do the same solo in "Nothing Else Matters" and play it in "Right the lightning." It just would not fit.

What is your opinion on the solo? Should it be filled with emotion, should it be memorable, should it be very technical and innovative, should it enhance the song melody, should it be a nasty shred, should it be distinct from the melody of the song, should it portray some meaning withing the song, or is the solo a instrumental part of the song that doesn't need to convey meaning?

Your thoughts?

,right the lightning

 

[Cheiron]

oops =p "Ride the Lightning"... I do that a lot. My mind always gets ahead of the typing.

 

[Bryan316]

I've got a very recent experience with this. The Kerrang tribute to Master of Puppets. The cover of Damage Inc. is superultraevilheavy.

Then the guitar solo comes. And it is the single most amatuer-sounding guitar solo I've ever heard. It's obvious the guy is not a shredder. He's a rhythm-only player trying to fill in the holes. AND IT SUCKS. The rest of the track is brutal and destructive, just like I hoped it would be. But then the letdown is so terrible, it kills the appeal of the song for me.

I don't even mind how Corey changed his solo for Master of Puppets, cuz he doesn't suck at the changes he made. He just makes sure he's not doing a note-for-note transcription, and has fun with it. It's not like he isn't completely capable of playing it note-for-note, he just wants to leave a mark. Now that I've listened to it a few times, I dig how he changed it. So I won't start screaming SACRILEDGE! BLASPHEMY! because he did it.


And then there's those who can do a completely different solo and make it sound AWESOME. I can't really think of any recent examples, so I'll have to go to Randy Rhoads doing Children of the Grave on the Tribute album.

 

[Bryant]

What is a good solo? What is a bad solo?

A good solo is one that is written, specifically for the song, though it doesn't necessarily have to be the same time signature nor key. Wolf Hoffmann has written several solos that were in a different key than the rest of the song (for example.) A good solo normally (but not necessarily) should have a beginning, climax and an end. I am far from a traditionalist who only likes totally "in the box" stuff but typically the solos I like best do have those qualities. Good solos are more about note selection and composition than the pure technical wizardry.
A bad solo is a solo built purely for the sake of speed/technical wizardry. Taking a few notes that simply link together a small group of a guitarist's best chops also normally makes a bad solo.

To sum it up, I think that just like any other part of the song, it is more about the writing as opposed to the pure technical aspect of it. A guitarist that does have the technical expertice will have an advantage of more technique at his/her disposal if they are good composers of solos than one of mediocre technical skills, but it all depends. David Gilmour has many brillant solos and you don't here appregios and string skipping techniques etc. about him. He plays with great feel (as do many other guitarists) but his note selections are incredible.


Bryant

 

[dargormudshark]

A guitar solo should first of all reflect the mood of the song. There are bands that I’ve heard and some I like that will have a song in a minor key and then when the guitar solo comes along its major and it sounds like Poison of Def Leppard. It clashes with it and turns it into a contradictory mess of emotion; these are solos with zero rational thought applied to them. A solo contributes to the song on a purely musical level. It should continue to stimulate the same emotion or certain surrounding emotions the rest of the song is trying to convey as a whole. By surrounding emotions I mean a subject that psychologically stimulates more than one emotion depending on your outlook. The subject of death for example, it can make you angry, depressed, confused, or you could be accepting of it. What gave me the idea for using death, as an example was “Healing Tree” by Vanden Plas. The song starts out confused then has a pre chorus that stresses the complications of the grieving process and a chorus that is accepting. The solo however is the height of expressing the pain one feels from someone’s death. A solo can represent one single emotional altogether, but only if it’s a surrounding emotion or the complete opposite for the sake of stressing a point. Most of the time its to take the most important emotion and stress it musically since this is the part of the song that is without lyrics, thus taking the most musical work. One of the best examples of the same emotion being raised to another level is Empire by Queensryche. This solo is great because it comes after a section of the song that is first and foremost informative of what the song is addressing (Federal expenditures for law enforcement taking a back seat when we have so much crime going on in the streets). When the solo comes in after that it is like a cry of desperation and disappointment in our government; it contributes greatly to the song. Since the solo for Empire is such a crucial moment in the song it makes it memorable.

Another reason a solo may exist is to set the mood for the song. Fade to Black comes to mind; after hearing that solo you don’t expect a song that sounds like or conveys the same mood as Sunset Station by Jorn Lande, or The Fresh Prince of Bellaire theme.

Now, you may say there are tons of solos that are classics, also being memorable, that doesn’t have that much thought put in it. Not true, every memorable solo has thought put in it, even something as simple as AC/DC. Since most of their songs are about thoughtless, promiscuous sex, Angus Young isn’t going to write a solo that stimulates the thought of passionate love; he’s going to deliver a raunchy, gritty, somewhat sloppy solo that is very primitive in its technique.

 

[Bryan316]

Zakk Wylde ain't exactly someone I think has the most phenomenal solo-writing skills. Much of his work has 'patterns' to them. Like, he'll play a lick, twice, then play another lick, twice, then play another lick... etc. His licks always start and stop on a four-count, and can always be pulled apart. His licks don't blend or flow into each other. They don't have any randomness or funkiness to them. Quite the prescribed, formulaic writing style.

BUT...

...does he ever do a whailing good fuckin job when he does them! Even though his solos aren't gonna get any Grammys or be considered progressive or impossible, like say, John Petrucci's stuff. But his solos always SOUND GREAT. They always fit the song, and follow the movement of the song. For example, Miracle Man. It ain't a hard solo, but it's hard to play it with as much intensity and badassitude as Zakk does. Especially his vibrato and bends and squeals.

Not complex and challenging, but loaded with attitude and balls.

 

[Cheiron]

Well its like a guitarist saying that BB King's music is easy to play.

His notes are easy to play. But to play -like- BB King... is not.

 

[LunaTEKKE]

One of the best examples of the same emotion being raised to another level is Empire by Queensryche. This solo is great because it comes after a section of the song that is first and foremost informative of what the song is addressing (Federal expenditures for law enforcement taking a back seat when we have so much crime going on in the streets). When the solo comes in after that it is like a cry of desperation and disappointment in our government; it contributes greatly to the song.

I thought of Queensryche as well when I first read this thread, but the song that came to mind was “Eyes of a Stranger.” You can really hear the desperation of the character’s situation come through in the music.

 

[diablomozart]

a guitar solo is a part if a song...being a part of a song it should enhance the mood or somehow elevate that mood to a new level...if it becomes just a catalog of licks thrown together i see no point in it...anyone with enough practice can play scales and arpeggios til they are blue in the face...say something with a solo instead...those are usually the memorable ones d.m.

 

[SavaVIDude]

Listen to the quiet solo at the end of "St. Patrick's Day" on STREETS by Savatage. It's the saddest I have ever heard a guitar sound. It's different from blues; it's desperation, confusion and dismay. All of Criss' (RIP, my brother) solos fit the song, and in STREETS, the situation. Sometimes you're so wrapped up in a Sava song that you have to go back and listen to Criss' solos on their own. Talking about fitting into a song!! There is also the solo in Sammy and Tex where they are fighting. You can hear the frenetic fight in the guitar. Criss once said his style lay somewhere between the heart and the hands. wow.

Peace,
Chris

 

[edgeofthorns]

Listen to the quiet solo at the end of "St. Patrick's Day" on STREETS by Savatage. It's the saddest I have ever heard a guitar sound. It's different from blues; it's desperation, confusion and dismay. All of Criss' (RIP, my brother) solos fit the song, and in STREETS, the situation. Sometimes you're so wrapped up in a Sava song that you have to go back and listen to Criss' solos on their own. Talking about fitting into a song!! There is also the solo in Sammy and Tex where they are fighting. You can hear the frenetic fight in the guitar. Criss once said his style lay somewhere between the heart and the hands. wow.

Peace,
Chris

Agreed! I thought about the Sammy and Tex solo when I first realized where you were going with your post. In my opinion, even post Criss era solos have fit what was going on during Savatage's music. That's what I think is so great about this band, the mood, lyrics, and music all fit together during their albums.......it works so well that it's almost rediculous! The albums Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan are both perfect examples of this. The intro of Blackjack is one of the best musical intros in metal period, then here comes the rest of the song and it just slays! Staring at the Sun from Handful of Rain is another great example of a guitar solo fitting the mood of a song by Alex Skolnick.

Of course, I could go on about Savatage all day!

 

[SavaVIDude]

The intro of Blackjack is one of the best musical intros in metal period, then here comes the rest of the song and it just slays!
Of course, I could go on about Savatage all day!

BJG - SHIT!! The intro sounds like a funeral. Listen to Caffery's solo - The junk going down the needle....until it hits the vein. Then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!!!!!

Also, listen to Scholnik bend that note in Alone You Breathe after, "I am the way, I am the light...". And the solo that follows. Quite the tribute to Criss.

Chris

 

[edgeofthorns]

BJG - SHIT!! The intro sounds like a funeral. Listen to Caffery's solo - The junk going down the needle....until it hits the vein. Then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE!!!!!

Also, listen to Scholnik bend that note in Alone You Breathe after, "I am the way, I am the light...". And the solo that follows. Quite the tribute to Criss.

Chris

If Savatage ever does another tour, lord help us, it would be cool for them to come out to the BJG intro and just kick into that song first thing! I could leave the venue then and be happy!

I got an idea that would kick ass the other day while I was at the gym....actually I was listening to some Savatage then. Anyway, they need to do a Savatage Rock Opera set during the next TSO Tour. That would absolutly kill to be able to use the Beethoven fire, etc. during a Savatage set, don't you think? Plus, it would expose Savatage's music to a very large amount of people, while blowing away some old lady's blue hair!

 

[LunaTEKKE]

Anyway, they need to do a Savatage Rock Opera set during the next TSO Tour. That would absolutly kill to be able to use the Beethoven fire, etc. during a Savatage set, don't you think? Plus, it would expose Savatage's music to a very large amount of people, while blowing away some old lady's blue hair!

“I Am” with the flashpots would ROCK – but a few of those blue-hairs might not come back the following year! However, there are some Savatage songs besides Christmas Eve / Sarajevo that would be a great fit for a TSO show. “Mozart and Madness” and “Hall of the Mountain King” come to mind.

Also, someone in a TSO d-group suggested opening the show with “The Ocean/Welcome” – I always thought that would be a cool inside joke for the Savatage fans in the audience.

 

[metropolisimages]

John Petrucci is one of those guitarists that can find the right solo for a song. If you listen to his solo album Suspended annimation, he has the ability to know what the song needs to enhance it. Sometimes shredding, sometimes, melodic, sometimes technical proficiency and so on.

 

[Tanelorn]

Personally, I prefer solos that have something to do with the song's melody... I don't like it when all the solo becomes is the lead guitarist seeing how many notes he can jam into as few seconds as possible... ...unless those notes have something musically to do with the song.

-Tanelorn