The kick tuning/micing thread

[::XeS::]

Ok, I create this thread to share some technique to tune and mic a kick drum.
Many times I read about tune it as low as possible and I did it in my last work.
I changed the skin (Remo Powerstroke), I stretched the skin for awhile, I detuned it and I did the "wrinkles" procedure (Bob Gatzen trick) so I tuned up a little the skin to have a good rebound for the pedals (if the kick is too loose, the drummer has some problem to play).
Unfortunately I had only a blanket as dampening so I tried to position it in the best way I can.
Drums was an entry level Pearl (not bad at all).
I used a Sennheiser e602. I put the mic 20 cm inside the hole (the back of the mic was 10cm from the hole), pretty low, very close to the blanket, pointing the batter off axis.

This is the kick sound I got:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Kick_Natural.mp3

With some eq
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Kick_Eq.mp3

The sound has not too much attack in the first clip but why? Could it be the kick head tuned too low? Or the mic too much off axis? Or too much dampening? There are many possible causes...
A kick sound too loose doesn't work at all in the fast double kick parts and the wave results hard to quantize in the editing because it lacks attack.
So...how do you usually tune your kicks? How do you usually put your kick mic?
Let's share your techniques

 

[Morgan C]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/KickRaw.mp3

That's my raw kick. Pearl Export; the heads are REALLY old. Like the batter head is many years old, the reso head is 'only' like 2 years old. Both heads are tuned practically as low as they can go. Senn e902 on it, I just chucked it up, I think it was pointing a bit past the beater (towards the right-hand side of the kick, drummer's position), just slightly in the hole.

Listening now I can hear some weird floppy stuff at the end with the slow double kicks. It sounds really nice with the harder hits though.

 

[Ermz]

XeS, it sounds like you've got too much dampening to start with. I always have the LEAST possible amount I can get away with. Less damped kicks will sound more lively and have more high-end bouncing around. It's the low-mid mud and resonance you have to watch out for.

Try just a feather pillow or small towels blocking the heads.

I'm no guru with drums unfortunately. Having a small project studio, I'm unable to practice very often, so I hope to find more information here from those who do record rock and metal drums day to day.

 

[::XeS::]

It has way more attack than mine...and it's clearly tuned higher than mine.
It's the "as low as possible" concept that bother me...

Ermz, definitelly I think the same. There was too much dampening inside.

 

[Morgan C]

XeS, it sounds like you've got too much dampening to start with. I always have the LEAST possible amount I can get away with. Less damped kicks will sound more lively and have more high-end bouncing around. It's the low-mid mud and resonance you have to watch out for.

Try just a feather pillow or small towels blocking the heads.

I'm no guru with drums unfortunately. Having a small project studio, I'm unable to practice very often, so I hope to find more information here from those who do record rock and metal drums day to day.

I would have said he had too little. Its kinda boomy.

The clip above was done with felt beaters. So I coulda gotten even more attack with plastic beaters, but that was just too much.

Check how your kick sounds in the room before you start messing with mic'ing.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/Drums2OctRoomy.mp3
The first few seconds in that are just a mic in a garage (terrible sound, but you can hear how tight the kick is).


Try with more dampening (mine is about 1/3 filled with a blanket), that'd be my first suggestion. But try with less too, because dampening is not something I have experimented much with. But if its nice and tight, you can boost the low-end considerably without anything weird going on.

You didn't say what beaters you were using? Wood beaters apparently have the most attack, then plastic, then felt.

Also, apparently Falam slams (that stop your kick head from wearing out), reduce attack, so try recording without one of them?

 

[::XeS::]

He uses plastic beaters like these http://www.pearleurope.com/ProductD...7&TopId=1&MainId=7&SubId=35&ProductName=P-900 (with the beater flipped ) and we used Falam slam

 

[::XeS::]

In my opinion , my problem is a mix of hard dampening and kick tuned too low. But this fight with the "as low as possible" concept I think....
What about the mic position?

 

[::XeS::]

Anyone that wanna share his techniques?

 

[Trevoire520]

Here's my kick for you to compare to: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1949675/Kick 602-NORM_02-02.wav

To be honest I've got even less attack than you! lol.

Mapex M Birch Kit
Powerstroke 3 head, tuned really low
Feather pillow for dampening
Felt beater
Sennheiser E602, only a few inches in the kick ( I don't really like sticking mic's right in the kick as all the reflections can cause weird midrange imo)

What I would say about Morgan's clip is that it's done with a 902, not a 602. The 902 seems to have alot more high's than the 602.

The 602 seems to have a huge low end to me, but not enough attack for metal stuff, I always seem to be boosting shit tons of high end to get some decent attack. Personally I'm considering getting a 902 or D6 for the metal bands and keeping the 602 out for pop/rock/punk stuff. Though with the extent of sample replacement on metal kicks I kinda feel like it would be £150 wasted...

 

[Metaltastic]

Morgan, the kick in both those clips sounds really damn good dude! (especially the room one, g'damn - makes me realize every single drummer I've ever played with has known absolutely dick about tuning ) Michele, I think the sample in the OP sounds pretty solid too man! (but I agree it's a tad heavy on the mud)

 

[::XeS::]

For me e602 is a pretty good mic also for metal. I don't like the extreme clicky sound of the Audix.
Anyway, this is a sample taken from my first drum recording 1 year ago. It was a shitty Roytek and the kick was not tuned and there was a pillow as dampening.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1436721/Kick_Old.mp3

As you can hear there is more attack and in fact there was less dampening and the mic was a little more on-axis to the batter. The kick was also tuned higher.
Sincerely, I don't know how the off-axis/on-axis in the kick change the sound (I have to do some test). A big user of e602 on kick is Tue Madsen and he uses it very low (close to the pillow) and off-axis, pointed to the batter....

Holy shit, drums make me crazy

 

[Morgan C]

Morgan, the kick in both those clips sounds really damn good dude! (especially the room one, g'damn - makes me realize every single drummer I've ever played with has known absolutely dick about tuning ) Michele, I think the sample in the OP sounds pretty solid too man! (but I agree it's a tad heavy on the mud)

Whoooops.. I just noticed now that its stereo.. and then realised that is an all-mics mix. Posted the wrong file, I'll fix it up when I get home.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/Drums4Oct Raw.mp3
Thats the right one.


As for attack.. can't you just boost the highs? I think less attack on the kick is better, its less painful when you get to higher volumes. More of a squish rather than a tick.


As for tuning, my heads are old, so 'as low as they can go' is probably higher than new heads. Tune the heads so that your fundamental is around 50-60hz. Any higher and you're conflicting with bass. Any lower and most systems won't be able to replicate it.

 

[::XeS::]

I don't like the D6 because it's too clicky, but the e602 is a good balance. As you can hear in the kick_old clip, there is a good bass response, no boom and a little click/attack.
Boosting the highs can work but I wanna get a good sound from the start. In the first post there are a natural sound clip and an eq'ed clip, but the bad sound is still there.
I think the bad sound has a group of causes: too much dampening e too low tuning. God, I think the kick_old clip is very very good.
The thing that makes me sad, it that often I've the impression that I'm involving and not evolving....more things I know and more bad my works sound :\

 

[Trevoire520]

Sincerely, I don't know how the off-axis/on-axis in the kick change the sound

Generally I find going on axis in the kick gets too much uncontrolled boom, so I like to go off axis.

Really, alot of your kick's attack comes from the beater hitting the head, so it depends on the beaters (felt, wood or plastic) the kick head itself, any slam pad's that are on it (I really like Falam Slam pads tbh) and of course, how hard the drummer hit's the kick (the most important factor of all)