"The Lotus Eater" is conceptually immaculate; shut the hell up.

[Eternalnow]

Okay, so the assertion is that Mike deliberately put in the "circus part" to represent embracing the 'hopeless delight' of alcohol? I think your analysis of the theme is very interesting, but I also think its utterly pointless to single out a specific section of music and say, "oh this passage represents blah blah blah". This is ridiculous; Opeth does not write program music and The Lotus Eater is not Peter and the Wolf. The best we can do is say that a certain section of music evokes certain emotions in us, and even that is purely on an individual basis.

Its an educated guess....to claim it as truth would be pretension of the highest order.

 

[Still Life 1891]

I suppose I might try a functional analysis, though I think toward the end of such understanding repeated listens are the best teacher.

While I agree with you, I would still very much like to hear your interpretation of the song, as you have opened up my eyes to a whole new level of understanding and insight into Opeth's art. I appreciate the time you took to post your thoughts though, it was a highly interesting read.

 

[BlueSky]

Care to name-drop? You're speaking of said bands in the present tense ("constantly put out"), whose converse I referred to before; when you're invested in a band from release to release, that music is going to seem more different than if you became a fan years later and listened to, say Deliverance through Watershed in a few hours, weeks, whatever, as opposed to digesting them years at a time like you did. That's likely why you perceive the period of D2 onward as "that which has seen the the biggest amount of change in the context of their catalogue"; you were listening to it album at a time, waiting for the next. That assures understanding better than listening to Orchid through BWP in a much shorter period of time. I infer this to have been the case, as you seem not to appreciate the incredible aesthetic deviance among the first five albums.



Again, you present a multi-layered contradiction. You're now saying Damnation was no attempt at change because Mike said it was "a one-time-thing"-- as opposed to something they'd stick with?! An instance of change is change whether or not it's followed by a different change or a repeat, and the fact that they didn't repeat Damnation reinforces the album as change followed by change in a new direction-- progression. (Not to mention you yourself said you don't grasp "why people act like Opeth have had some drastic change ever besides Damnation.")
Haha, I think I -already- steamrolled you with -my- levelheadedness; I'm the one covering my bases and not concocting mind-boggling contradictions.

I love how you have yet to dissect the music itself, and someone you've steamrolled me again. Tell me what's so different between most the records? The formula has been the same since the first cd. Lengthy structured songs with the heavy death metal sections intertwined with classical styled acoustic passages, and the occasional blues rock/jazz lick/solo/progression. How many Opeth songs did I just describe? As for Damnation it's a change in a sense it's different, but not a change in the sense that it was a step towards progressing. It was almost like a smoker saying, "look I can quite, I did for two days, now where's my damn cig!?" I see Watershed more as a step towards, "hey we're not bound to anything." Bands that I see constantly trying to redefine themselves are Thrice, Ulver, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree. They're constantly experimenting with totally new sounds that you'd never expect them to do.

 

[Holocaust on the Moon]

Seems like someone hasn't seen the Mariopeth video.

Seen it. It still just sounds like a 70's prog rock homage.

 

[Aeonblade]

Easily the worst song on the album, and the keyboard part is stupid. They've almost become so predictable in their unpredictability that when they add weird bullshit like that they seem to be doing it just to make a song longer or give the hardcore retards more reason to defend them.

 

[Tepheron]

Easily the worst song on the album, and the keyboard part is stupid. They've almost become so predictable in their unpredictability that when they add weird bullshit like that they seem to be doing it just to make a song longer or give the hardcore retards more reason to defend them.

Ah, f*ck you. Should Opeth leave out a part just because it might be predictable to an asshole like you? The whole song sounds incredible to me and to a lot of other people.

With that said, I'm now leaving the forums. I can't stand all the bullshit.

 

[Aeonblade]

Good for you and a whole lot of other people. I'm not worried about what you think otherwise I wouldn't have posted that because I knew that idiot fanboys like you would swarm me for having a negative opinion about Opeth.

 

[RoadKing]

Interesting thread you've got here, Rev!

While I think you may be over-analyzing just a tad in parts, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the refreshingly well-written and thoughtful interpretation nonetheless. I do agree whole-heartedly, though, that TLE is one of the most brilliantly crafted and under-appreciated (already!) titles in Opeth's entire catalog, and is probably the one song on the record that best epitomizes Akerfeldt's current creative state of mind.

As for the death-funk "breakdown", I think it's one of the coolest and most unexpected moments on the record. I actually enjoy hearing a great band show the stones to take chances like this! It's a brilliant hook, and as for Per's tone in this section, it's absolutely perfect! It's really more old-school funk than anything else, and that sort of gnarly, semi-cheesy, squashed tone fits it like a glove.

Anyhoo... great read, cheers!

 

[intension]

Easily the worst song on the album, and the keyboard part is stupid. They've almost become so predictable in their unpredictability that when they add weird bullshit like that they seem to be doing it just to make a song longer or give the hardcore retards more reason to defend them.

Part of me wants to say "fuck yea" purely because a lot of Opeth fans have their heads up their asses when it comes to the supposed originality and amazingness of the band. It's good that you're at least being honest with us and yourself. However, I fucking love the song, and the keyboard part. Sometimes it ain't about new and original, but good songwriting. Burden-type songs have been done to death, but it's still nice a great track. Lastly, I resent this whole "hardcore retard" thing. A very small amount of Opeth fans are hardcore retards. Retards? Yes. Hardcore retards? Not so much.

 

[Aeonblade]

Part of me wants to say "fuck yea" purely because a lot of Opeth fans have their heads up their asses when it comes to the supposed originality and amazingness of the band. It's good that you're at least being honest with us and yourself. However, I fucking love the song, and the keyboard part. Sometimes it ain't about new and original, but good songwriting. Burden-type songs have been done to death, but it's still nice a great track. Lastly, I resent this whole "hardcore retard" thing. A very small amount of Opeth fans are hardcore retards. Retards? Yes. Hardcore retards? Not so much.

See, why can't more Opeth fans be like this? Instead of spewing some horseshit about how you just don't understand or get it when you say something even remotely negative about them. As far as hardcore retards, I'm not sure how you took it. I meant it in that alot of Opeth fanboys are on a completely different plane of retarded brown nosing than almost every band ever sans Metallica.

 

[Necromantic-Hiko]

for the record, i dont think everyone who refers to the keyboard breakdown as nintendo-esque means it in a bad way. i love it, and it does kind of remind me of a faster paced videogame them or song from back in the day. just has that...sound to it.

 

[Tangled]

Really?!? I respect your opinion, though I wish you would better substantiate it. Honestly I find 2:52 - 4:14 of TLE among Opeth's best performance synergy on any album-- Axe's drumming practically making it. The song segment is so anguished, it's incredible.

I think my problem with the drum work on TLE is that it overwhelms me. Its extremely intense and has no tension release. Parts like 2:24 the drums come blasting in on top of mikes vocals and I begin to feel like the drums and vocals are competing with each other. I think this is why alot of people describe the song as "disjointed". The drums don't effectively set the song in motion and the fills dont sound natural to me, I feel like on TLE the drums play more of a lead roll then a rhythmic one. The direction of the song is not very clear at first and the structure is strange. Its difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I dislike about it because, admittedly im starting to fall for the song hard and im understanding where you are coming from with the synergistic feel.

Another thing im starting to think is that maybe with different drum miking it might have sounded better, maybe more ambients? Like a Zeppelin recording, more watery atmospheric sound. They sound shallow but to intense. Think back to Orchid, on tracks like Under The Weeping Moon or The Twilight Is My Robe. Very powerful drum work and understandable (hate to use that word) drum work. Each fill and variation makes perfect sense and sound almost ethereal. The Lopez era had the same feel only more exotic and complex. Now with Axe I feel its just too complex and flashy (only on TLE cause everything else on watershed is wonderful -drumwise-).

That being said I have alot of respect for the song, and what went into writing it. I think its the most important song on watershed but far from the best. I think the song really shows and defines Opeths direction and attitude moving forward but maybe with a bit more refinement or perhaps different miking techniques it would have come out a much better song.

 

[aname23]

My mum LOVES the "circus part"...

I still haven't worked out whether this is a good thing -_-

Maybe I should play her Heir Apparent and see how she goes with that?

 

[Blue Moon]

Funkedelic prog cross Mr. Bungle.

That pretty sums it all.

 

[ReverieUnfold]

Originally posted by Still Life 1891:
While I agree with you, I would still very much like to hear your interpretation of the song, as you have opened up my eyes to a whole new level of understanding and insight into Opeth's art. I appreciate the time you took to post your thoughts though, it was a highly interesting read.

Maybe the demand is high enough. A lyrical/functional analysis of "The Lotus Eater" will be my next thread. For now...

Originally posted by BlueSky:
I love how you have yet to dissect the music itself, and someone you've steamrolled me again. Tell me what's so different between most the records? The formula has been the same since the first cd. Lengthy structured songs with the heavy death metal sections intertwined with classical styled acoustic passages, and the occasional blues rock/jazz lick/solo/progression. How many Opeth songs did I just describe? As for Damnation it's a change in a sense it's different, but not a change in the sense that it was a step towards progressing. It was almost like a smoker saying, "look I can quite, I did for two days, now where's my damn cig!?" I see Watershed more as a step towards, "hey we're not bound to anything." Bands that I see constantly trying to redefine themselves are Thrice, Ulver, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree. They're constantly experimenting with totally new sounds that you'd never expect them to do.

You speak of only the albums' song structures and basic stylistic influence. Think harder of the latter, and of differing aesthetics.

Orchid and Morningrise you've generally differentiated-- albeit only structurally-- from the seven subsequent albums; I will now substantiate compositional and aesthetic contrasts between the first two, as well as among the rest of Opeth's discography.

Orchid: Raw, uplifting, triumphant, with perhaps the sunniest guitar harmonies ever to be clearly metal and profoundly jazz-influenced bass-playing throughout most of the album. The 'ambience' of middle segments of "Under the Weeping Moon" scream Acid Mothers Temple (especially in their interpretation on The Roundhouse Tapes, whose version of this I think literally better-- but that's irrelevant). "Silhouette" is Opeth's only purely piano or even piano-centric instrumental; for those who don't know (you?) a Silhouette pt. 2 was recorded but not included on the record, so we're considering an album whose writing period saw essentially a six-minute or so piano composition. "The Twilight is My Robe" places Swedish folk-style passages in roles of epic suspense between I believe more guitar solos than any other Opeth song. "Requiem" (including its segment beginning "The Apostle in Triumph") boasts flamenco-style guitar playing that for many listeners evokes Arabic influence, more discernibly Spanish/Moorish touches that I believe extend into Apostle-- especially with the lyric-less vocal harmony at 8:41.

Morningrise: Dark, mystic, sorrowful, with guitar harmonies of mind-bending anguish-- a heavy contrast to the brightness of Orchid's. Here, all compositions but "Black Rose Immortal" are obviously less disjointed than the first album's, a perception aided also by improved technical execution and production. Important: BRI is at times about the only exception to Morningrise's generally dark and sorrowful atmosphere, especially with the quite victorious 1:13 - 3:11; go figure that Åkerfeldt/Lindgren began writing BRI in the pre-Orchid days, corroborating my notion of a major thematic shift from triumph to despair between the first two records. Acoustic passages are more developed, incorporated, and play more orchestrated roles than the more transitional touches on Orchid. If Morningrise can be said to retain ostensibly flamenco influence, this is heard in its guitar solos (e.g., both Nectar BRI's first). Touches of dark psychedelia (1:18 - 1:57 of "Advent", 3:06 - 3:19 of "Nectar") also distinguish the album, as does the status of "To Bid You Farewell" as their first entirely clean-vocal song.

My Arms, Your Hearse: Haunting, nostalgic and romantic, MAYH shows significant abandon of the early duel-harmony style, though harmonies are still plentiful in less of a 'left-ear and right-ear' way. They wash together into thick, fat, guitar tones that compliment what is possibly increased classic metal influence in the riffing; hear much of "The Amen Corner" and "Demon of the Fall". MAYH's pieces are shorter and more cohesive (no relation), making them 'song-ier' without sacrificing progressive bent heard in their varying and repeat-free segments of yearning beauty. MAYH incorporates transitional 'shorts' ("Prologue", "Madrigal") and instrumental ("Epilogue") unique from those heard on Orchid; it contains also, if I'm not mistaken, Opeth's first verse-chorus-verse composition: "Credence".

Still Life: While generally regarded to be an overall stylistic (even qualitative) standout in Opeth's discography, it (re-)incorporates jazziness and plentiful song-by-song content-- general characteristics of Orchid and Morningrise-- into slightly shorter pieces of increased density and multi-layering, while retaining and expounding heavily upon the cohesion and conceptual/aesthetic romance of MAYH. I believe its beautiful individuality speaks for itself, song by song. Completely different music than on any other Opeth record. Completely different.

Blackwater Park: I can agree with a notion of structural/formulaic similarity between Opeth releases, but only regarding Still Life setting the stage for a slightly similar album structure and song-to-song progression with Blackwater Park. Early in my fanhood, I was actually mistaken in believing BWP to be Opeth's third concept album; and while it doesn't tell a story song-by-song, Mike has described it as being about his oft disgust with humanity. This can be heard in a theme I believe exists on no other Opeth record, yet epitomizes band's general declared dynamic: description of evil by its ignorant or thrilled perpetrators-- the torturous reality of suffering contrasted by euphoric musical release paralleling the emotional mindset of those causing it ("The Leper Affinity", "Bleak"). Yin-yang. Dark, desolate, and beautiful.

I don't care to take this much further, as your stunted understanding was stated to lie most with the first five albums, Damnation onward being 'more obviously' different or whatever. Deliverance, then, is clearly as much an aesthetic standout-- twisted, even surreal brutality of slightly more simplicity, augmented by careful repetition and a brilliantly produced atmosphere-- credit to SW.

I consider your mention of Thrice and even Radiohead regarding "constant experimentation with the totally new" basically laughable; despite my incredible affinity for Ulver (whose musical left-turn is surely among metal's most significant) and PT, the former can be heard to have two general sides and there are a couple dozen minor chords Steven Wilson will just not stop recycling-- usually to beautiful effect but sometimes to monotony. Granted, the latter three are incredibly dynamic bands, but it's as subjective a call as any that their innovation is more constant or unforeseen than Opeth's.

I think my problem with the drum work on TLE is that it overwhelms me. Its extremely intense and has no tension release. Parts like 2:24 the drums come blasting in on top of mikes vocals and I begin to feel like the drums and vocals are competing with each other. I think this is why alot of people describe the song as "disjointed". The drums don't effectively set the song in motion and the fills dont sound natural to me, I feel like on TLE the drums play more of a lead roll then a rhythmic one. The direction of the song is not very clear at first and the structure is strange. Its difficult for me to pinpoint exactly what I dislike about it because, admittedly im starting to fall for the song hard and im understanding where you are coming from with the synergistic feel.

Another thing im starting to think is that maybe with different drum miking it might have sounded better, maybe more ambients? Like a Zeppelin recording, more watery atmospheric sound. They sound shallow but to intense. Think back to Orchid, on tracks like Under The Weeping Moon or The Twilight Is My Robe. Very powerful drum work and understandable (hate to use that word) drum work. Each fill and variation makes perfect sense and sound almost ethereal. The Lopez era had the same feel only more exotic and complex. Now with Axe I feel its just too complex and flashy (only on TLE cause everything else on watershed is wonderful -drumwise-).

That being said I have alot of respect for the song, and what went into writing it. I think its the most important song on watershed but far from the best. I think the song really shows and defines Opeths direction and attitude moving forward but maybe with a bit more refinement or perhaps different miking techniques it would have come out a much better song.

Hell yeah, its drumming overwhelms me too! I just disagree that there's no release from the tension-- the several-second periods of no drumming between blastbeats aside, I consider subtle breaks like those following the strikes at 1:40 and 2:55 to be recovery-- especially the small but important moments of silence surrounding strokes near 4:02 as the intensity winds down. To me, the notion of TLE's drumming and vocals competing with each other makes perfect conceptual sense; the duality of rhythm and melody paralleling the clashing lyrical ideas. I initially felt similar about the song not having a clear sense of direction despite instant love for certain moments, but everything clicked after two or three listens.

I definitely understand what you're saying about Watershed's drumming, even the production thereof-- and though it will never meet the high regards in which I hold Lopez and his work, I still dig it. As I said in reply to BlueSky, Under The Weeping Moon impresses me much more on the 'Tapes-- drumming and all. I definitely feel ya about The Twilight Is My Robe, though. My first Opeth song-- still madly in love with it. Great post-- I'm glad a couple posters this thread have agreed that best WS tune or not, "The Lotus Eater" seems a great reflection of the album and Mikael's creative direction.

 

[Scourge of Malice]

lul

 

[BlueSky]

lul

+1

The TORMENTING ANGUISH OF MIND BENDING ROMANTICISM!!!?

 

[ReverieUnfold]

Cute sidestep from the point.

 

[BlueSky]

I see now you have no clue what you're talking about, which means I'm wasting my time as it is. Good day.

 

[Blind Guardian]

You know,about 1 minute ago i finally realized how good this damn song is! I´m sure i´ve heard it about 20 times already and sure i´ve enjoyed it but now..something happened,this song is fucking awesome,what a flow. I always love these Opeth-moments,when every piece falls into place,happens with every Opeth album sooner or later