The Mysticism Thread

[KafkaX]

The intention for this thread is a place for people to discuss their practices, personal experiences, curiosity, and expressions of mysticism. Whether it be practicing Sufi whirling, dissecting esoteric meanings of the Kabbalah, exploring different meditation or yoga techniques, lets discuss what brings you insight into different levels of being which are beyond our normal human perception.

Please keep the religion bashing out because it would be cool if there could be one spot on this forum where curious individuals can explore the esoteric, metaphysical, and spiritual perspectives of any practice/religion/philosophy, regardless of its origin of faith.

 

[KafkaX]

To start out, Ive been a spiritual cocktail since my mid teens, and after dabbling here and there, Ive found a practice that works for me. Its a Vipassana meditation technique preserved in the Burmese theravadan buddhist tradition of Venerable Ledi Sayadaw ---> Sayagi U Ba Khin ---> S.N. Goenka.

Here is a 2 part video of SN Goenka giving an introduction talk about Vipassana Meditation which is taught in hundreds of meditation centers around the world, solely run by volunteers, and funded by donations. They offer 1 day, 3 day, 10 day, 20 day, 30 day, 45 day, and 60 day meditation courses.

Ive been practicing Vipassana ever since I was introduced to it in India almost 4 years ago. It works for me, and wherever I go in the world, there is a Meditation center nearby providing a place for me to deepen my practice.

Anyhow give it a whirl if you are interested:



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--71jSYMMqg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--71jSYMMqg[/ame]

(EDIT: He doesnt start talking until 0:48 on the 1st video...)

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I'm interested in the philosophy and practice of Buddhism (meditating, yoga, etc.) but I don't see it in a metaphysical way since I don't believe in such things. I just think it is a healthy way to live life and have been meaning to delve further into it.

 

[KafkaX]

Yeah, buddhism has no concern with yoga, with philosophy, or with metaphysics. Just living a pure, peaceful, compassionate, harmonious life. That is the essence of Dhamma (the teaching of the Buddha)....Hell, the Buddha himself is shitting his pants over the fact that a "ism" has been created in his name, it was the last thing he ever wanted.

But yeah, Id love to recommend to you some books on the topic if you are interested. Is there any books youve read so far?

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Just a few here and there. I've read Zen Training by Kazuki Sekida and Sun and Steel by Yukio Mishima. I found the latter especially enjoyable but something to be taken with a grain of salt since it seems kind of radical in some sections. Good stuff nonetheless.

 

[KafkaX]

I havnt read either of those books...In all reality im not to educated on Zen but I can recommend a few books by Alan Watts.

He was one of the first teachers to introduce me to Eastern thought, and actually philosophy in general. Hes a big advocate of Zen and was actually a practitioner for some time. He has a plethora of lectures that you shouldnt have a problem finding if you want to check em out...But as far as books, these two are a good start with him:

In My Own Way (Autobiography)
The Way of Zen

Other books on Zen I found useful:
Zen Mind, Beginners Mind
3 pillars of Zen
Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

 

[Zephyrus]

My specialty interest in Classical Studies/Ancient History is in Neoplatonic philosophy and the Emperor Julian, who practiced a ritual/theurgic form of Neoplatonism as developed by the Syrian/Greek philosopher Iamblichus. It's my ticket into mysticism as it puts a mystical spin on Plato's philosophy and ties it well into Greek religion and cult practices, as well as incorporating influences of Eastern solar cults.

I've also been dabbling in the Greek Orthodox Church, and have attended a few services. My purpose there is mainly academic, to see the continuity between Late Antique religiosity and philosophy and Christianity, but to truly know what's going on requires some total immersion into the spirit of the ritual and the goal of henotic union with the godhead.

See my blog (link in my sig) for more of my general approach.

 

[Wolfcollar]

I personally practice Wicca. Wicca isn't what people sometimes connect it with....no we don't worship the devil, we don't believe in the devil...but thats beside the point.

As a witch....or sometimes i like to say im more a shaman...i am deeply into nature....i have many different stones for different things and my meditation is simply grounding myself....my favorite way to do that is to go to a lake or river....dangle my feet in it while learning all I can from the nature around me....you can learn a lot from a tree, a shell, or a river rock...its all in the akasha, the spirit, the life force of every living and non-living thing....

people ask why we believe in the supernatural....but witchcraft is not supernatural, nothing is supernatural....how can anything be outside of nature? I deal with the metaphysical because....quite simply....as above, so below.

Blessed be.

 

[KafkaX]

I personally practice Wicca. Wicca isn't what people sometimes connect it with....no we don't worship the devil, we don't believe in the devil...but thats beside the point.

As a witch....or sometimes i like to say im more a shaman...i am deeply into nature....i have many different stones for different things and my meditation is simply grounding myself....my favorite way to do that is to go to a lake or river....dangle my feet in it while learning all I can from the nature around me....you can learn a lot from a tree, a shell, or a river rock...its all in the akasha, the spirit, the life force of every living and non-living thing....

people ask why we believe in the supernatural....but witchcraft is not supernatural, nothing is supernatural....how can anything be outside of nature? I deal with the metaphysical because....quite simply....as above, so below.

Blessed be.

Beautiful post. We definitely can learn everything we need to know out in nature, because whats outside in nature, is inside of us. We are interconnected with everything. The trees, the grass, a shell, a river, a rock, a chipmunk, all of it...
"Nothing is insignificant. The smallest blade of grass is connected to the farthest star, and is significant as the greatest sun." -Osho

Whats your favorite stone you have? I collect them as well

 

[Mort Divine]

I personally practice Wicca. Wicca isn't what people sometimes connect it with....no we don't worship the devil, we don't believe in the devil...but thats beside the point.

As a witch....or sometimes i like to say im more a shaman...i am deeply into nature....i have many different stones for different things and my meditation is simply grounding myself....my favorite way to do that is to go to a lake or river....dangle my feet in it while learning all I can from the nature around me....you can learn a lot from a tree, a shell, or a river rock...its all in the akasha, the spirit, the life force of every living and non-living thing....

people ask why we believe in the supernatural....but witchcraft is not supernatural, nothing is supernatural....how can anything be outside of nature? I deal with the metaphysical because....quite simply....as above, so below.

Blessed be.

I have a few questions for you.

1. As a Wiccan do you follow the Gardnerian tradition or one of the many other branches of it? If not Gardnerian then what are your thoughts on that aspect of the Wiccan faith? From my understanding it is quite a bit more 'fringe' than most of the more 'peace and love' Wiccan traditions seem to be.

2. Solo practitioner or in a coven? (No real reason other than just wondering)

3. Concerning witchcraft, do you think that it is something that is 'magical' and makes use of unseen energies or other stuff that might appear like hoodoo to the unknowing person? Or do you take a different approach to it, such as believing in the power that ritual can have over influencing the subconscious mind, and altering ones actions to potentially achieve the desired results without being aware of the alteration in behavior consciously? (holy shit that sentence is so bad)

I've always found myself fascinated in this kind of stuff, especially when I was younger. Even now as a non-theist I occasionally wonder what life would have been like for me had I not taken the path I did - one of non-spirituality, one of what I see and can verify is real.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Cool thread bro p)

I've always shied away from mysticism a bit because i see it as going after three goals that are distinct in my mind -- a state of mental "elevation", good health, and understanding of some fundamental truth about existence. I have other means for going after those, particularly scientific/rational thought for the understanding part. I know many people find such thought a bit of a red herring, but I think having it as a central part of my life has actually changed my perspective in amazing ways.

As far as the state of elevation, in my case it comes from a variety of different experiences, and I have difficulty relying on any one "technique" for bringing it about. Chemicals play a big part to be sure, but outside of that I can catch a good vibe in nature, around people, while walking around my neighborhood in the sun, while listening to music -- whatever serves as a good neurochemical trigger

I do want to have more of that state in my life, and my way of doing that lately is to be a "lifehacker" of sorts. I'm learning to invest my savings, traveling around in search of intellectual soulmates, and doing various little projects in my copious free time that serve as "streamlining" my life and reducing the time I spend on distractions. Amusingly enough, I think getting an iPad of all things has had a positive influence on my lifestyle.

Once all those practical matters are out of the way, though, I can't quite say what my "practice" will look like. It totally depends on my feelings (I think that's the case with all of us who have spiritual goals, really) so whatever world I build for myself will have to be done around that.

 

[KafkaX]

"a state of mental "elevation", good health, and understanding of some fundamental truth about existence."

Whats wrong with desiring any of those things?
I might be misunderstanding what you mean here so Ill let you elaborate...

"I have other means for going after those, particularly scientific/rational thought for the understanding part. I know many people find such thought a bit of a red herring, but I think having it as a central part of my life has actually changed my perspective in amazing ways."

So you mean by intellectualizing? Well, man is a rational being! Most organized religon thrives off people who dont use their intellect and reason and will blindly believe whatever they say because they dont want to go to hell. So using your intellect and reason is definitely something of value in all realms of life. But, intellectualizing cannot offer true lasting wisdom and peace. Which brings me to this...

Look at this story:
1)I go to a restaurant and sit down and look at the menu and just by reading the menu with all its entrees and descriptions I start to salivate, and I think to myself that this food is going to be amazing.
2) I look around and people around me are enjoying their food and I am validated again, yes the food is going to be amazing.
3)I get the food, taste it, and realize its amazing.

Only the 3rd experience brings about Truth. Using my intellect that the food tastes amazing does not bring about Truth. Not even other peoples experiences of them eating, with their smiles and obvious signs of enjoyment bring about Truth, only by my own experience of me tasting it, can I experience the Truth about the food. Dont get me wrong, our intellect and reason is very important, but its a means to an end, not the end. Its a stepping stone leading us to place more importance on personal experience.

"As far as the state of elevation, in my case it comes from a variety of different experiences, and I have difficulty relying on any one "technique" for bringing it about. Chemicals play a big part to be sure, but outside of that I can catch a good vibe in nature, around people, while walking around my neighborhood in the sun, while listening to music -- whatever serves as a good neurochemical trigger "

As far as this one technique thing, I understand what you are saying, but also have a rebuttal. The reason I meditate, daily, is because it helps keep my mind and heart clear and out of their own way. It slows down the mental chatter that distracts me from my own peace. So when Im out on those walks, on those drugs, around those people, Im able to tap into that source within more easily. One of the reasons I have a "practice" is to always be suspended in this state. Our natural, peaceful, harmonious and happy state, that we are constantly playing hide and seek with. When coming from that point of view, you are not reaching for something outside of ones self and justifying your own inadequacy to attain a state of elevation. What we seek is within us, not in nature, in chemicals, or in music.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Whats wrong with desiring any of those things?

Nothing, i desire them all

So you mean by intellectualizing? Well, man is a rational being! Most organized religon thrives off people who dont use their intellect and reason and will blindly believe whatever they say because they dont want to go to hell. So using your intellect and reason is definitely something of value in all realms of life. But, intellectualizing cannot offer true lasting wisdom and peace. Which brings me to this...

Look at this story:
1)I go to a restaurant and sit down and look at the menu and just by reading the menu with all its entrees and descriptions I start to salivate, and I think to myself that this food is going to be amazing.
2) I look around and people around me are enjoying their food and I am validated again, yes the food is going to be amazing.
3)I get the food, taste it, and realize its amazing.

Only the 3rd experience brings about Truth. Using my intellect that the food tastes amazing does not bring about Truth. Not even other peoples experiences of them eating, with their smiles and obvious signs of enjoyment bring about Truth, only by my own experience of me tasting it, can I experience the Truth about the food. Dont get me wrong, our intellect and reason is very important, but its a means to an end, not the end. Its a stepping stone leading us to place more importance on personal experience.

I would agree that reason alone provides dubious promise of getting us access to the fundamental nature of reality, but as long as we're framing the matter in terms of "what is reality?" i think there's a good chance we're intellectualizing to begin with (and that the very notion of pursuing truth and bliss is intellectualizing).

What if our minds are inherently incapable of understanding the true nature of reality? It could be, we don't know; but i think because we don't know, we can't possibly consider any single approach to "thinking about the world" to be the best one for us. It's very much up in the air as to how we "get to" reality.

As far as this one technique thing, I understand what you are saying, but also have a rebuttal. The reason I meditate, daily, is because it helps keep my mind and heart clear and out of their own way. It slows down the mental chatter that distracts me from my own peace. So when Im out on those walks, on those drugs, around those people, Im able to tap into that source within more easily. One of the reasons I have a "practice" is to always be suspended in this state. Our natural, peaceful, harmonious and happy state, that we are constantly playing hide and seek with. When coming from that point of view, you are not reaching for something outside of ones self and justifying your own inadequacy to attain a state of elevation. What we seek is within us, not in nature, in chemicals, or in music.

I think it's a little of both the inside and the outside that defines our experiences in the world. Our mental/emotional state can be the product of diet, physical activity, mental stimulation, the quality of our social or sex life, and the various stressful situations we deal with in order to survive. I think Buddhism took the observation that many people go through a lot of suffering "by choice", and overgeneralized it to suggest that *all* suffering comes from within. Clearly much of our physical wellbeing is not controlled by our mind.

An idea i like better than "freeing myself of all attachments" is to find the best shortcuts to satisfying my physical and mental needs. Meditation may well be one of my most underutilized available shortcuts, but i have no expectation that it will lead me to some kind of ultimate peace that could not be improved upon by occasionally "intellectualizing".

 

[KafkaX]

What if our minds are inherently incapable of understanding the true nature of reality? It could be, we don't know; but i think because we don't know, we can't possibly consider any single approach to "thinking about the world" to be the best one for us. It's very much up in the air as to how we "get to" reality.

I think it's a little of both the inside and the outside that defines our experiences in the world. Our mental/emotional state can be the product of diet, physical activity, mental stimulation, the quality of our social or sex life, and the various stressful situations we deal with in order to survive. I think Buddhism took the observation that many people go through a lot of suffering "by choice", and overgeneralized it to suggest that *all* suffering comes from within. Clearly much of our physical wellbeing is not controlled by our mind.

Meditation may well be one of my most underutilized available shortcuts, but i have no expectation that it will lead me to some kind of ultimate peace that could not be improved upon by occasionally "intellectualizing".

Our minds are totally capable of understanding the tru nature of reality, the ultimate Truth, the divine, whatever the fuck you want to call it, its all the same. They way we know is by the account of people who have walked the same walk, got to the top of the mountain, and then came back down and told about their experience and showed the path.

I think it is all 100% our mind. There are accounts of people who have transcended the demands of our physical body because of the mastery theyve gained from their strict disciplined lifestyle. Theres no way Im anywhere close to that, but I do believe for sure that its all 100% of mind. Ive meet poverty ridden villagers in India that were in worse health, seeminlgy unhabitatable living conditions and no sex life, but had much more vigor in their eyes than I had in my entire being. What accounts for that?

Thats a good attitude to have. A lot of people expect too much, too fast. Having no expectations is a great attitude imo. But hey, if shit aint broke, dont fix it. If intellectualizing brings you fulfillment, happiness, peace and wisdom then rock it dude.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Our minds are totally capable of understanding the tru nature of reality, the ultimate Truth, the divine, whatever the fuck you want to call it, its all the same. They way we know is by the account of people who have walked the same walk, got to the top of the mountain, and then came back down and told about their experience and showed the path.

I think it is all 100% our mind. There are accounts of people who have transcended the demands of our physical body because of the mastery theyve gained from their strict disciplined lifestyle. Theres no way Im anywhere close to that, but I do believe for sure that its all 100% of mind. Ive meet poverty ridden villagers in India that were in worse health, seeminlgy unhabitatable living conditions and no sex life, but had much more vigor in their eyes than I had in my entire being. What accounts for that?

Thats a good attitude to have. A lot of people expect too much, too fast. Having no expectations is a great attitude imo. But hey, if shit aint broke, dont fix it. If intellectualizing brings you fulfillment, happiness, peace and wisdom then rock it dude.

Without your anecdotal nonsense, please explain how?

 

[monoxide_child]

I personally practice Wicca. Wicca isn't what people sometimes connect it with....no we don't worship the devil, we don't believe in the devil...but thats beside the point.

As a witch....or sometimes i like to say im more a shaman...i am deeply into nature....i have many different stones for different things and my meditation is simply grounding myself....my favorite way to do that is to go to a lake or river....dangle my feet in it while learning all I can from the nature around me....you can learn a lot from a tree, a shell, or a river rock...its all in the akasha, the spirit, the life force of every living and non-living thing....

people ask why we believe in the supernatural....but witchcraft is not supernatural, nothing is supernatural....how can anything be outside of nature? I deal with the metaphysical because....quite simply....as above, so below.

Blessed be.

I also practice Wicca
i can "hold the rain" "heal people", sometimes i have flashes of pre-cognition, post-cognition, i have limited telepathy, and i have an aura sensing ability

 

[Mort Divine]

Damn shame you're not capable of good ol' fashioned normal cognition.

 

[KafkaX]

Without your anecdotal nonsense, please explain how?

Im not sure if I can drop my anecdotal nonsense, but Ill try.

Let me first start out by saying, I have no idea what Im talking about. Seriously. Im trying to put into words, concepts, and images something that language will never be able to capture. Thats why personal experience is so important. And through my collective experiences, Im still trying to wrap my head around it all and progress towards a quality of being that is as much elusive as it is tangible. Its a tricky world, but ill try to elaborate.

The mind is a stepping stone to take me beyond its own limitations, so I need it but there comes a time along the way where its dropped to jump ahead, so to speak.

How the mind can comprehend the true nature of reality, is it must be kept within the framework of the body. That is where the Truth resides, the inner kingdom of God resides, etc. So I work with the body; this collective vibration of constantly stirring atoms, electromagnetic waves and a lifeforce similar to the ocean depths.

When I explore my body,(this dimension of changing mind and matter phenomena) with one pointed objective awareness, I am lead to experiences and insights of a reality that is beyond the notion of time, space, mind and matter. In this state, I believe that I am re-established in my soul's inner kingdom, where the ultimate truth, the true nature of reality, etc rests.

The goal is to use the different levels of the mind, to bring awareness to the body, to bring myself to the stage where I am no longer identifying with the body and am identifying with the spirit.

 

[monoxide_child]

I also practice Wicca
i can "hold the rain" "heal people", sometimes i have flashes of pre-cognition, post-cognition, i have limited telepathy, and i have an aura sensing ability

i was kinda in a hurry when i made this post

 

[Zephyrus]

It could be, we don't know; but i think because we don't know

The piper's calling you to join him.

There is a difference between pursuing an objective reality and attaining divine truth. There is no text to reality, handed down to us like the decalogue from Sinai, that we can simply read. The only texts are our texts, which are not only interpretations of that reality, but our creation of that reality itself.

What I'm getting at here is that seeking this truth through purely objective/scientific means is giving you only one interpretation, i.e. a cosmos in which subject and object interact as causes and effects. But in truth they only seem separated by the illusion of grammar, which divides reality into subject and object. We are only particles colliding in space, individuals pitted against one another.

To annihilate the ego, to dispel this illusory distinction between subject and object, is the key to truth, for it awakens you to identity with not only the totality of Being, but also the infinity of infinities within it. The ability to tap into that well of infinite possibilities is liberation, the freedom of Spirit (or Mind - Hegel and Nietzsche would say "Geist" which means sort of both).

Let me first start out by saying, I have no idea what Im talking about. Seriously. Im trying to put into words, concepts, and images something that language will never be able to capture.

This Truth is beyond Being itself (as Plato says, hyper tou einai - somewhere in The Republic - i'm lazy), and is therefore ineffable because nothing predicates it. To put a concept into words is to reify it in a sense and give it substance, yet this is the thing that gives substance to everything else. All else partakes in it for its substance. The degree to which it partakes in it is the degree to which it is truly real. Therefore the most authentic human life is that which lives most according to this truth, that which goes beyond the material, outermost emanations of this Truth.