The News Thread

[Dak]

An additional 1.6 trillion in tax receipts is both feasible and wouldn't have a negative economic impact? Fortunately we get to play hypotheticals on this.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

The fact that Hillary got an overwhelming majority of corporate donations amounts to a pretty big economic vote of confidence in her. The same vote of confidence applies to the Republicans in congress: https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/index.php?cycle=2016&display=T&type=M

I think it makes enough sense that corporations prefer Republican tax and regulatory policies, so instead of arguing in favor of Hillary's tax proposals I'll just assume they were largely irrelevant. Probably the economic advantage corporations saw in making her President was that she's more in line with the status quo (which reduces economic uncertainty and its related costs - interest rates, currency risk, etc.) and more pro-trade.

Ultimately I want to see the trend of increasing wealth inequality reversed, by whatever means is most sensible. I don't much care if it's done with tax increases, closing tax loopholes, restricting the movement of money out of the US, increased IRS funding, whatever.

One thing I'll give Trump credit for is helping to tighten the labor market. I've realized over the past few months that giving workers more job security and negotiating power with employers is an important step toward economic equality too. I just question the sustainability of his job policies given the long-term trend of job automation.

I still think over the long-term we're moving toward a situation where economic growth normalizes at zero and corporations are no longer economic value-adders but mere hoarders of wealth, automating ever more jobs to the benefit of only their shareholders. If that happens, I hope our society won't waste too much time and money chasing the dream of "eternal growth" before moving on to an institution-driven labor system and a redistribution of corporate shareholdings away from the elite.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

i still cant get enough of this future classic ...



anderson coopers bitch ass : "please dont clap for him, please dont cheer"

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

 

[Dak]

Which side of the line receives the most government subsidies?

 

[rms]

i feel like tvs are the only things on there that are truly getting cheaper. buying toys for my niece and nephew was outrageous

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/its-expensive-to-be-poor/361533/

but to this article's point which uses that graph, which items on that list are of necessity to elevate your socio-economic status? I can think of two, and both are green(dont see food on there)

 

[Dak]

There are tons of degrees one can get which do not translate into improved socio-economic status - other than being able to check the "College degree" box on surveys. Health care does not improve socio-economic status, because healthcare in the US is trauma care and for mitigating the effects of chronic problems born primarily of bad choices.

Edit: Also food is on there.

 

[rms]

There are tons of degrees one can get which do not translate into improved socio-economic status - other than being able to check the "College degree" box on surveys. Health care does not improve socio-economic status, because healthcare in the US is trauma care and for mitigating the effects of chronic problems born primarily of bad choices.

we're speaking in generalities here but there are very few degrees that are as relatively worthless as mine, but still improve your economic capabilities. the only real jobs that good w/o any kind of technical or standard degree is like natural gas/coal laborers and the military, am I missing any? maybe if you are a landscaper/roofer in the south too

I was referencing child care/services more than general health care, but I don't think I agree with you that health care does not improve your socio-economic status or give you a chance to elevate it. if you're in debt because of some bad luck (this is obviously <21 discussions and not including some 40 year old fat alchy), it's going to limit your opportunities. sure it could also 'motivate' you into that STEM field or something, but having health care is clearly a positive for anyone poor

Also food is on there.

oh yeah, i see it now. green

 

[Dak]

we're speaking in generalities here but there are very few degrees that are as relatively worthless as mine, but still improve your economic capabilities. the only real jobs that good w/o any kind of technical or standard degree is like natural gas/coal laborers and the military, am I missing any? maybe if you are a landscaper/roofer in the south too

Sales and coding do not require degree, and being good at either is demonstrated by practice. I'm assuming you are discounting any form of physical labor as not a good job (otherwise, you could include jobs like plumber, electrician).

I was referencing child care/services more than general health care, but I don't think I agree with you that health care does not improve your socio-economic status or give you a chance to elevate it. if you're in debt because of some bad luck (this is obviously <21 discussions and not including some 40 year old fat alchy), it's going to limit your opportunities. sure it could also 'motivate' you into that STEM field or something, but having health care is clearly a positive for anyone poor.

Is socioeconomic status merely "less limited opportunities"? As a grad student, my opportunities are extremely limited in all sorts of domains, yet I wouldn't list myself as socioeconomically disadvantaged per se.

 

[rms]

Sales and coding do not require degree, and being good at either is demonstrated by practice

sales, no. but i wouldn't really consider that a solid career. coding? i'm unaware of how you get into the field of coding unless you're a boy genius who taught yourself the strong languages. AFAIK you need 2YR at least and significant knowledge in that field. my bro is just a basic IT/networking guy and he had to get an associates

I'm assuming you are discounting any form of physical labor as not a good job (otherwise, you could include jobs like plumber, electrician).

those jobs require OJT/2 year degrees/apprenticeships kind of things. I wouldn't compare a plumber-to-be and a natural gas/coal/mine laborer/roofer construction laborer etc.

Is socioeconomic status merely "less limited opportunities"?

you're opportunities are limited in terms of grad school and what you can venture through because of your bachelors, but it's not like you can't venture into a new field like myself. For instance, a kid with health care debt cannot become a PhD history major or a high school teacher, it'd be economically not smart. but he could go STEM/business as his financial gains make more sense that way

 

[Dak]

sales, no. but i wouldn't really consider that a solid career. coding? i'm unaware of how you get into the field of coding unless you're a boy genius who taught yourself the strong languages. AFAIK you need 2YR at least and significant knowledge in that field. my bro is just a basic IT/networking guy and he had to get an associates

I don't think you need to be a "genius", but you do need dedication. Sales is a solid career for certain types of people. It's a myth that people are interchangeable cogs and pieces of paper that say "Degree" on them don't change a bad fit.

those jobs require OJT.......apprenticeships kind of things.

Yes. I guarantee someone of reasonable intelligence and drive can work under a plumber long enough to learn and then go hang up his own shingle without going to a community college or some nonsense.

you're opportunities are limited in terms of grad school and what you can venture through because of your bachelors, but it's not like you can't venture into a new field like myself. For instance, a kid with health care debt cannot become a PhD history major or a high school teacher, it'd be economically not smart. but he could go STEM/business as his financial gains make more sense that way

Those bad options are bad with or without healthcare debt. But what is socioeconomic status? I'd submit that a PhD in history scratching out a living as an adjunct professor at a random college is lower than a reasonably successful small business owner that may or may not have any post-secondary education.

 

[rms]

I don't think you need to be a "genius", but you do need dedication.

i dunno man, java is a pain in my ass and I think thats a rather basic language

Yes. I guarantee someone of reasonable intelligence and drive can work under a plumber long enough to learn and then go hang up his own shingle without going to a community college or some nonsense.

but the 21st century model for the skilled trades is formal education via a CC for roughly 2 years. Especially if countries adopt the German model. For instance, before I joined the Army I interned at a machining company over the summer and then I got certified to be a machinist at my local CC. That's basically how you get in these days

But what is socioeconomic status?

kinda dropped the socio- since we're talking more on young 'adulthood' rather than early upbringing

I'd submit that a PhD in history scratching out a living as an adjunct professor at a random college is lower than a reasonably successful small business owner that may or may not have any post-secondary education.

yeah, and I imagine most if not all would agree. but that small time business owner is not as 'safe' as being an adjunct prof in any humanities field. just not enough opportunities out there for a sizeable chunk of the population to become small business dudes

 

[arg]

lol i was talking with the polish guy in the bloodbath forum and he says they have universal healthcare but pay 32% taxes if you make over $21k annual income

THIRTY TWO PERCENT FOR TWENTY ONE THOUSAND.

not in my America. die slow in a shitty hospital bed, Bernie bros


edit: LOL AND IT'S 57% IN SWEDEN

 

[Einherjar86]

In what is rapidly becoming old news, arg is once again bitching and moaning about living in a world with other people.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

What's funny is that skilled trades jobs, especially manufacturing, are gonna blow the fuck up once these boomers start retiring. I hardly know anyone aiming for a professional career in the industry. Some are going for production work or getting in the offices, but tooling and true machining work is going to be in sore need of young people.

 

[Einherjar86]

Or automated technologies...

But there will likely still be jobs that require a human touch, yes.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Production will be replaced. Maintenance of those machines and design of dies or molds themselves can become more digital, but not replaced.

 

[Dak]

I don't understand why complaining about ridiculous tax rates is somehow a complaint about people. All problems are ultimately human so I guess we shouldn't complain about anything.

 

[Talos of Atmora]

I don't understand why complaining about ridiculous tax rates is somehow a complaint about people. All problems are ultimately human so I guess we shouldn't complain about anything.

It's essentially a really cheap way of making someone appear to be selfish while virtue-signaling simultaneously.