The News Thread

[HamburgerBoy]

100% of you wants to be diddled by a priest.

Coming from an aboriginal rape baby of colonialists.

 

[rms]

What exactly are you implying here? That this 50% is sympathetic to radical beliefs because they won't report it? There are many, many reasons why someone might be too scared to report others in their community, especially when the general sentiment of the Western world toward Islam is one of suspicion.

An innocent Muslim reports his neighbor, and suddenly the police are at his door: "So, how exactly did you know that your neighbor had been radicalized?" It's a fucking awful situation to be in.

There ar definitely social and economic reasons to be considered here but Jesus you went off the deep end into full on apologist fast. People not aspiring to do the right thing, right being defined by the nation/legal system they are a part of for this example, is a damn tragedy.

What if the cop on the bridge without ant weapons didn't challenge and try to subdue the terror suspect that had knives? We'll never know because he didn't he right thing and luckily is only injured and not dead.

 

[CiG]

What exactly are you implying here? That this 50% is sympathetic to radical beliefs because they won't report it? There are many, many reasons why someone might be too scared to report others in their community, especially when the general sentiment of the Western world toward Islam is one of suspicion.

An innocent Muslim reports his neighbor, and suddenly the police are at his door: "So, how exactly did you know that your neighbor had been radicalized?" It's a fucking awful situation to be in.

This comment is weirdly emotional and irrational for you.

Coming from an aboriginal rape baby of colonialists.

My aboriginal side is full blood, my white side can't be traced back to the colonialists, my grandfather came here from Sussex as a child and my grandmother's parents came from Ireland.

 

[Einherjar86]

There ar definitely social and economic reasons to be considered here but Jesus you went off the deep end into full on apologist fast.

This comment is weirdly emotional and irrational for you.

I was only asking a question and even offering some explanation for my inquiry. I just find it disappointing that we're possibly demonizing Muslims for simply remaining silent in the face of difficult circumstances, when reporting potential activity can have unforeseen and dangerous consequences for them--if that's indeed what you're doing. I'm not sure it is.

I fail to see how it's emotional, irrational, or apologist.

 

[CiG]

I was only asking a question and even offering some explanation for my inquiry. I just find it disappointing that we're possibly demonizing Muslims for simply remaining silent in the face of difficult circumstances, when reporting potential activity can have unforeseen and dangerous consequences for them--if that's indeed what you're doing. I'm not sure it is.

I fail to see how it's emotional, irrational, or apologist.

I'm not saying Muslims should or shouldn't do anything (though personally I would report it if it were happening in my community) what I am saying is, terrorism cannot be dealt with by non-Muslims if roughly half of the Muslim community aren't even willing to do anything.

Not really sure what you would suggest if you won't even say that Muslims need to report these people. I'm not at all swayed by your appeal to their victimhood, especially when bodies are being strewn apart by terrorists.

Reporting possible terrorist activity doesn't have to be public, police have anonymity policies for those reporting crimes or threats for a reason.
Terror suspects in many cases are even able to find people who will hide them from authorities, things have to change.

We either work with Muslims and they do their part, or right-wing anti-immigration sentiment continues to gain popularity, Muslims continue to defend the faith against critics when a terror attack happens, it continues to fester and it all eventually truly goes to hell.

 

[Einherjar86]

We either work with Muslims and they do their part, or right-wing anti-immigration sentiment continues to gain popularity, Muslims continue to defend the faith against critics when a terror attack happens, it continues to fester and it all eventually truly goes to hell.

There's the rub.

I also think that everyone should report criminal activity if they know about it; but I'm also sympathetic toward a community of people whose very knowledge of potential criminal activity elicits the suspicion of the Western world (generally speaking).

It shouldn't be on Muslims to put themselves in potential danger and under scrutiny in order to change the West's dominant view of their culture. The West needs to give something back, and part of that means not treating every Muslim as a potential terrorist.

I'm not accusing you of this. I'm just saying that it shouldn't fall entirely on Muslims to alleviate the burden of suspicion. And in the case of America, at least, American Muslims are overwhelmingly viewed as needing to step up, while non-Muslim Americans are absolved of responsibility.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm not saying Muslims should or shouldn't do anything (though personally I would report it if it were happening in my community) what I am saying is, terrorism cannot be dealt with by non-Muslims if roughly half of the Muslim community aren't even willing to do anything.

Not really sure what you would suggest if you won't even say that Muslims need to report these people. I'm not at all swayed by your appeal to their victimhood, especially when bodies are being strewn apart by terrorists.

Reporting possible terrorist activity doesn't have to be public, police have anonymity policies for those reporting crimes or threats for a reason.
Terror suspects in many cases are even able to find people who will hide them from authorities, things have to change.

We either work with Muslims and they do their part, or right-wing anti-immigration sentiment continues to gain popularity, Muslims continue to defend the faith against critics when a terror attack happens, it continues to fester and it all eventually truly goes to hell.

Ever heard of the phrase "dindu nuffin"? How about "affluenza"? People of all kinds (except maybe the Japanese honorary Aryan master race) try to protect their own. There's nothing special about Muslims in that regard.

 

[rms]

This idea that the west automatically associates those who are aware of criminals and their criminal activity as criminals as well seems insanely out of place. This idea you're putting on the Muslim population in at least Britain is incredibly comparable to Urban examples we see of all races in the States. But no one assumed the father of that one terrorist was also a terrorist when he told federal authorities that he thought his son was radicalized. I forget the name of the terrorist so I hope I'm not wrong here.

 

[CiG]

There's the rub.

I also think that everyone should report criminal activity if they know about it; but I'm also sympathetic toward a community of people whose very knowledge of potential criminal activity elicits the suspicion of the Western world (generally speaking).

It shouldn't be on Muslims to put themselves in potential danger and under scrutiny in order to change the West's dominant view of their culture. The West needs to give something back, and part of that means not treating every Muslim as a potential terrorist.

I'm not accusing you of this. I'm just saying that it shouldn't fall entirely on Muslims to alleviate the burden of suspicion. And in the case of America, at least, American Muslims are overwhelmingly viewed as needing to step up, while non-Muslim Americans are absolved of responsibility.

It doesn't fall entirely on Muslims, but what do you suggest we should do in lieu of roughly half of the Muslim population's refusal to report radicalism and terrorist activity? Monitor mosques? Monitor the Internet activities of households where Muslims live?

Communities policing themselves is important and vastly preferable to big brother monitoring policies that the Conservative Party want to implement and believe me, if this kind of thing keeps up, more and more people will be willing to go along with big brother policies, just like Americans were after 9/11.

Edit: To address the portion of your comment I bolded, it is not a matter of Muslims putting themselves in potential danger and under scrutiny in order to change the west's views on Islam, that's entirely missing the basic point that it should be on them, as British citizens, to do their part so that less people are killed.

And furthermore what the west gives back is the west itself. We open our arms to them when many other places and cultures would simply toss them out or viciously oppress them until they left.

Ever heard of the phrase "dindu nuffin"? How about "affluenza"? People of all kinds (except maybe the Japanese honorary Aryan master race) try to protect their own. There's nothing special about Muslims in that regard.

That's no excuse, after all it's not like Muslims aren't at risk of being killed or maimed by terrorists.

 

[rms]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/17239...ast&utm_campaign=beingconservative#exit-modal

so for London it's either increasing police state or "well, we can't find all the radicals we allowed into the U.K."

what a mess

 

[Einherjar86]

It doesn't fall entirely on Muslims, but what do you suggest we should do in lieu of roughly half of the Muslim population's refusal to report radicalism and terrorist activity? Monitor mosques? Monitor the Internet activities of households where Muslims live?

I think a start would be trying to make Muslims feel safer when telling on their neighbors. This doesn't have to do with giving them safe spaces, but with guaranteeing that they won't be targeted (by the state or otherwise) for admitting knowledge of potential terrorist threats.

Edit: To address the portion of your comment I bolded, it is not a matter of Muslims putting themselves in potential danger and under scrutiny in order to change the west's views on Islam, that's entirely missing the basic point that it should be on them, as British citizens, to do their part so that less people are killed.

You say this as though these two things are extricable from one another.

 

[arg]

Hurting innocent muslims' feelings loooool who gives a shit, fuck em

 

[CiG]

hink a start would be trying to make Muslims feel safer when telling on their neighbors. This doesn't have to do with giving them safe spaces, but with guaranteeing that they won't be targeted (by the state or otherwise) for admitting knowledge of potential terrorist threats.

I don't see how they would be in danger of this.

You say this as though these two things are extricable from one another.

Well yes, being a citizen and taking on the duties one is usually expected to carry out as a citizen, comes with risks.

But you and people such as yourself, no offence, are just as bad as the xenophobes and Muslim-rejectionists when it comes to talking about Muslims as if they're separate from the rest of the populace. They are British citizens who should, just as everybody else does, bear the burden of doing what's right.

Also, it's not as if we're asking Muslims to police their communities based on arbitrary factors such as race, these are all people who share a category of religion, an organized ideology that one hypothetically can detach from or join onto. Furthermore in the west, it is very common for religious communities to become insular and tight-knit, especially when non-native languages dominate said communities.

So if good, moral, patriotic Muslims (at least 50% in the U.K.) are not willing to be the first line of defence against radicalism within their own blatantly closed-off communities, we really are screwed.

Considering that apparently last year or the year prior, more British Muslims went to join ISIS than they did join the British military, we need all citizens working together on this.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Kurt Eichenwald, noted purchaser of child pornography in the past, just accidentally ousted himself as a hentai fan. Beautiful.

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/872661171576467456

 

[Einherjar86]

But you and people such as yourself, no offence, are just as bad as the xenophobes and Muslim-rejectionists when it comes to talking about Muslims as if they're separate from the rest of the populace. They are British citizens who should, just as everybody else does, bear the burden of doing what's right.

None taken.

But being a "British citizen" isn't a transparent, or even a stable, category. I don't think they're separate from the populace, and I don't want to absolve them of social responsibility. But British citizenship doesn't erase their Islamism, and one of the unfortunate aspects of being a British Muslim in today's world is a contradictory sense of responsibility to country and family/community, especially since many Muslims in the West feel targeted by their country.

If you don't see how Muslims face potential discrimination and even danger from involving themselves in investigations into terrorism, then I'm not sure this conversation can go anywhere. I'm sure you believe that you personally wouldn't be suspicious of a Muslim who turned in information on someone in his community; but I would be extremely hesitant to extend that courtesy to all non-Muslim Westerners.

Considering that apparently last year or the year prior, more British Muslims went to join ISIS than they did join the British military, we need all citizens working together on this.

From https://www.indy100.com/article/hav...joined-isis-than-the-british-army--xyyRhQiIQe

...there are also 28,430 members of the armed forces who declared no religion when they signed up to fight.

So to claim that there are 'twice as many' British Muslims fighting for Isis as there are in the British armed forces is pure guesswork.

Quit fear-mongering dude...

 

[CiG]

I assume I mingle in many more right-wing and anti-Islam circles than you do (maybe not though) and I can tell you there is definitely a respect for and a desire to see more Muslims take an active stance against these radicals.

Time to stop playing the victim, especially considering the actual victims are blown apart and hacked up targets of terrorism, and start doing their civic duty.

 

[Dak]

many Muslims in the West feel targeted by their country.

That's because many in western countries feel targeted by Muslims.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm well aware of that. I'm not trying to pin the blame on one side.

 

[rms]

that is cowardly IMO blame is rarely on one side entirely, but to not associate the "51%" of blame to someone/some group/etc is ridiculous and likely only applies for non-white-cis-males

 

[CiG]

There was a certain point that Muslims started to be viewed suspiciously, it wasn't like this always in the west, especially in the United Kingdom where Omar Sharif for example was one of the most beloved "celebrities" around.

Anybody have a clue when it actually changed in the United Kingdom? I don't think it was 9/11 in America that caused it in the U.K.